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700 vs 26 inch tires

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Old 02-11-15, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by 2gether84
This board has been really helpful and I appreciate everyone's willingness to help and share your years of tandem expertise. While digging through the archives I found this link from TandemGeek.
https://www.precisiontandems.com/artdwanwheelsize.htm
Junk like what Dwan wrote in that link are part of why I didn't purchase a Co-Mo when I bought my last tandem, even though I live in the same town where they are made. He more than doubled the actual diameter difference between quality 26" tires and what most people ride for 700C. Also, I guess he's never ridden with people who have custom tandems built with 26" tires to accommodate short-torso captains (less toe overlap) if he thinks they are somehow inherently slower than 700C. My wife and I have completed double centuries in 9 hours on 26" tires and have known others who were an hour ahead of us, also on 26".
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Old 02-11-15, 01:42 AM
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OP: I have quite a few tandems and singles and the split is about 50/50 between 26" and 700C with a few 27" and a few 650B's thrown in for good measure. Of all the variables possible for wheels/tires, the wheel diameter is probably the least important. It is all about the tires!

Hope that helps
/K
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Old 02-11-15, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
The work by the Bicycling Quarterly crew, which is affiliated with Compass Bicycles, shows that for a given tire wider is indeed faster. My experience is that the Compass 26 X 1.5" tires had MUCH less rolling resistance than the Fat Boys. We have a few places on our regular routes where after cresting a hill we roll without pedalling downhill into a flat spot before either approaching an intersection or another descent and the difference is quite noticeable. With the Compass tires, we don't pedal on those stretches and maintain our desired speed. With the Fat Boys we have to pedal to maintain that speed. The 26 X 1.75" had even less rolling resistance.

More comfort, better handling, lower rolling resistance: what's not to like about fatter? Okay, they are a bit heavier, so you may notice that. The market for truly lightweight 26" tires just isn't big enough for the Compass folks to pay for the molds to make them (yet). But there wasn't much of a market for 650B when they started pushing them either, so I have hope.
Our results are similar. I can't quantify it with a direct test because after the 1st ride on the Compass tires I threw the fatboys in the recycling bin. Yes they are made in a pacela mold and in your hands they look identical
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Old 02-11-15, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mocharider
Our results are similar. I can't quantify it with a direct test because after the 1st ride on the Compass tires I threw the fatboys in the recycling bin. Yes they are made in a pacela mold and in your hands they look identical
OOPS hit the wrong key. Jan specs Panasonic's best racing casing material and rubber compound giving the tire a very supple casing, making them superior to an actual Pacela. Well worth the difference in price.
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Old 02-11-15, 09:49 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
Junk like what Dwan wrote in that link are part of why I didn't purchase a Co-Mo when I bought my last tandem, even though I live in the same town where they are made. He more than doubled the actual diameter difference between quality 26" tires and what most people ride for 700C. Also, I guess he's never ridden with people who have custom tandems built with 26" tires to accommodate short-torso captains (less toe overlap) if he thinks they are somehow inherently slower than 700C. My wife and I have completed double centuries in 9 hours on 26" tires and have known others who were an hour ahead of us, also on 26".
Well, his numbers weren't terribly far off(i just did a bunch of math...), but he neglected one glaring factor that renders his position a bit silly.

using extreme tire widths for comparison, i.e. 26x1.5 vs 700x44, you get about 9% lower gearing with the 26ers.

That's the difference between an 11 cog and a 12 cog. So, if the smaller wheels are getting left behind on the group ride, then the bigger wheels are motoring along in their highest gear all the time. They must only do tandem group rides when they get a few days off from their Pro Tour commitments.

Edit: 12% difference. Not 9% so, a cog and half...

Another thing. You'll spend more actual time climbing than descending if you have hills, so then that one higher gear is surely irrelevant.

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Old 02-12-15, 09:21 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dave42
Another thing. You'll spend more actual time climbing than descending if you have hills, so then that one higher gear is surely irrelevant.
Plus one on that, we purposely chose a davinci because of the extra gears, but also chose 26" wheels because of our size. And we will say that living in Colorado, lower gears are a must and used a lot, especially loaded.
R&J
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Old 02-12-15, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by B. Carfree
The work by the Bicycling Quarterly crew, which is affiliated with Compass Bicycles, shows that for a given tire wider is indeed faster. My experience is that the Compass 26 X 1.5" tires had MUCH less rolling resistance than the Fat Boys. We have a few places on our regular routes where after cresting a hill we roll without pedalling downhill into a flat spot before either approaching an intersection or another descent and the difference is quite noticeable. With the Compass tires, we don't pedal on those stretches and maintain our desired speed. With the Fat Boys we have to pedal to maintain that speed. The 26 X 1.75" had even less rolling resistance.

More comfort, better handling, lower rolling resistance: what's not to like about fatter? Okay, they are a bit heavier, so you may notice that. The market for truly lightweight 26" tires just isn't big enough for the Compass folks to pay for the molds to make them (yet). But there wasn't much of a market for 650B when they started pushing them either, so I have hope.
There may be hope for new 26" Compass tire. Jan commented in a recent article that when riding a bike with those tires he noticed the existing Compass 26" tires had a lot more rubber than was needed and should be improved.
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Old 02-12-15, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gracehowler
Plus one on that, we purposely chose a davinci because of the extra gears, but also chose 26" wheels because of our size. And we will say that living in Colorado, lower gears are a must and used a lot, especially loaded.
R&J
Yeah, I'm 30 miles west of where the mountains begin. I used to live 163 miles northeast of here, and the terrain was similar. Steeper. A lot of it is straight up and down. 18% grades, 27% grades can be easily found on smaller roads, even in the foothills. The only thing we lack is high altitude, as the tippy top of nc tops out a little over 5000 ft. But, from 1700 feet to 3400 feet, I can do a century loop with over 10000 feet of climbing, primarily on state highways.

So, it's nice to have a few low gears.
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Old 02-13-15, 10:53 AM
  #34  
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Same with us on the Davinci. Ordered it with the Campy group so that we would have 4 chainrings along with the lowest gearing possible on our rear cassette. With the hills around here, I need all the help I can get!
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