wentworth

im 6'4" 200 pds. lht is sooo classy. randonee is cheaper? any comments regarding geometry? ive got a friend with a lht, and he says the middle of the frame has some wobble to it when loaded... almost like speed wobbles... Anyone else with this?

robow

Both excellent bikes, do you like STI shifters or bar ends? That should more likely be your deciding factor.

Greg_R

Except that the LHT can take much wider tires and the geometries of both bikes are different. wentworth, I weigh more than you do and haven't had any wobble problems with my LHT (loaded or unloaded). However, you should definitely test ride each (with and without loaded panniers). Be sure to check the toe and heel clearance and how the bike rides over varying surface conditions.

xcapekey

I'm not quite sure how your friend is loading his bike, but my experience is that the LHT is rock solid. I use to have a 520 and that would shimmy if I had weight on the front. The LHT in comparison is a stable descender with a load. (i'm 5'8 180lbs, ride the 52cm)

How does your friend load the bike, how much weight, up high or down low, what kind of rack?

BigBlueToe

I'm 6'4" and also weigh about 200 lbs. I have a 62cm LHT. I have a Tubus rack in back and Jandd in front, plus an Ortlieb handlebar bag. I have Ortlieb Classic Rollers front and back, and bungee my tent and sleeping bag on top of the rear rack. I have absolutely no wobble, even at the highest speeds. It's rock solid.

SweetLou

Most people I have talked with say the LHT is rock solid, but I have had a couple of reports of wobble. I'm not sure of the common denominator that might be causing the wobble. I know my co-worker only had rear panniers and a handlebar bag. I might have to check with some others if this was the case also.

LeeG

It helps to be SPECIFIC when it comes to describing a handling characteristic like "wobble".

I've had a lot of bikes that got into some kind of wobble while riding hands off with gear on the back and a light front end. I've seen some people get into an out of control wobble at high speed with their hands on the bars as their manner of holding the bars became a part of the oscillation but I've never had it happen to me I saw one guy go off the edge of the road and break a few ribs. I'm pretty sure he simply was not used to high speed handling and he pulled his weight away from the front wheel on bad pavement at the wrong time.

I've had a couple custom touring bikes get into a totally unacceptable amount of wobble while riding with one hand or HANDS OFF with light front ends or high bar bags which is bothersome when changing jackets but it can be stopped by resting ones leg on the top tube.

So first off are you describing a wobble while riding normally or riding hands off? If it happens hands off does it take a few seconds to develop and can be ridden through or does it happen suddenly or to such a severe degree that it makes riding unsafe,,,more unsafe than riding hands off?

I've had a 56cm LHT for 1/2 yr and it can develop a wobble riding hands off with weight on the rear and none on the front. It is absolutely no problem with one hand on going fast down a hill with weight on the rear and a light front end. It has a low amplitude oscillation with weight on front lowriders and no hands off but no problem with one hand on the bars.

One time I rode it with a 10lb can of paint on the rear rack and the no-hands wobble dissapeared. Which is kind of counterintuitive.

I have a custom 26" touring bike with heavy chainstays and lighter front end and top tube than the LHT and it has a more distinct hands off wobble that I have to stop with my leg while changing a jacket, I've enjoyed it for 15yrs. 30yrs ago I had a custom Lippy touring bike that had a heinous no hands wobble and couldn't be ridden one hand going 20mph+ down hill, I did a lot of mountain descents with my knees clamping the top tube.

I've had a few road bikes that developed a no hands wobble at high speed but it's really not wise to ride with no hands at high speed.

In the grand scheme of things after owning a couple dozen bikes, raced, toured and owning a bike shop I find the "wobble" in the LHT a non-issue given the time it's a problem, riding no hands at high speed and that it's less than other "touring bikes" I've owned.
My opinion is that for a particular degree of desirable handling characteristics trying to make a bike totally "wobble proof" may become self-defeating given the variables that weight distribution can contribute or nullify that tendency.

Wentworth, was your friend specific or did he simply say "it's got a wobble"?

zoltani

Wow Lee what an amazing amount of experience with wobble! I have always clamped the top tube with my knees on fast descents out of pure habit. It does help to cut down on any wobble effect. Shimmy and wobble have a lot to do with how the load is spread out on the bike as you stated, and i think a lot of issues can be solved with the way you pack. If someone reported wobble i would be more interested how their load was spread than what frame it is.

LeeG

What gets me is a description of a characteristic as though the bike is the only factor. Get a 30lb bike, put 30lbs on it then 200lb rider on it and move the 230lbs around, some combinations of speed and weighting are not safe,whether it's wobble or reaching into a bag while riding.

I'd be curious to hear from frame builders on this,,gotta be a thread on the other forums about it. Seems to me that if you want a particular amount of responsive handling that the front end won't be totally immune to some kind of oscillation in a hands off situation.

LeeG

hey, hey, hey,,knew there were some folks who figured this stuff out. Somewhere between being able to ride hands off while brushing your teeth and changing clothes to sneezing and having the bike fly sideways there's going to be a compromise in straight line stability (speed dependant) and responsiveness to rider input. One brings out the possibility of the wobblies(that can be damped by hands on bars or leg on top tube) and the other makes for an unresponsive straightline riding truck.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...ghlight=shimmy


For all of these rakes there is a trail range from shimmy inducing to rides-on-rails

Butterthebean

Here's the deal...the Randonee's largest size is only 59. LHT goes up to 62 I believe. At 6'4", a 59 might be too small for you.

valygrl

Just to muddy the waters, Novara bikes are included in REI's current 20% off one full priced item for REI members coupon.

kayakdiver

novara randonee

mechanicalron

I had a bit of a wobble under load but it was not the LHT I found out. It was a wimpy back wheel that had 32 spokes. It felt like mid frame flex but I got a solid wheel and all is good!

mechanicalron

O yea,
I love my LHT!

LeeG

ok, so last night I'm riding home with a six pack in both front panniers/low riders and the bike is smoooooooth over the bumps. Nope, no wobblies.

mechanicalron

OK but try one gallon of milk, 4 2ltrs of pop, 4 big botles of juice, 2 lbs of apples, 3 6 packs of beer, 2 lbs of cat food, ha ha ha you get the picture! I am 6 years car free and load my bike up! Esp when I go camping. The flex I am talking of makes you think of welds cracking in the back of your mind! But in my case it would have been spokes on the drive side breaking. I have found the Surly to be a good, smooth ride but solid from side to side. Not much twist under load when you stand up to run that yellow tight! ron.

wentworth

mechanical ron, that is one sexxy beast you have... im convinced. lht it is. i think i was convinced from the start. i just found a leftover frameset from 08 for $300!!! I might just build it up over the next few weeks. But, i went to my lbs today and they said they could get me an 09 complete for the same price as bike direct, 930... or they could match the price of the 08 frame, but give me an 09. does anyone know if the frames changed at all between the two years? id love to get an 07, mmmmm black cherry.....yum. ron, what kind of panniers are those??? love the world war 2 look...

SSfreak

I think those are called "Mechanical Ron" Panniers.

AlanK

I think the LHT is better overall, and a better investment. The good folks at Surly really know what they're doing with it. The most important comps are top quality (hubs w durable rims, rear derailleur, shifters) while the less important ones are lower-end, but reliable (head-set, stem, handle-bars, etc.). As others have mentioned the frame also allows for larger tires.

The Randonee is decent, but the components are consistently mediocre, partly because it has STI shifters rather than bar-ends (LHT). Personally I like bar-ends more, but regardless of your preference STI shifters are about $150-ish more expensive. In order to keep the cost reasonable REI had to cut a few corners on the Randonee, most glaringly the wheels/hubs.

Don't get me wrong the Randonee is still a perfectly good bike, but the LHT is better and isn't that much more expensive.

roadfix

Good point.

tacomee

The only real difference between the LHT and the Randonee are the shifters. The wheels, and all the other parts, are roughly the same quality. The frames are about the same quality. Both bikes are great values, worth buying.

Test ride 'em -- don't put too much stock in what you read here.

There isn't a wrong choice.....

mechanicalron

ha ha ha, you got it. I make them and I have a joke,,, I tell people I make them for my grand children! I make them to last.

AlanK

That's absolutely false, at least at it pertains to the wheels. The LHT wheels are built around XT hubs, ultra-durable Adventurer rims, and DT Swiss spokes (one of the best spokes you can get).

The Randonee wheels are built around mediocre Tiagra hubs, decent A139s rims, and 'stainless steel' spokes (no guage or manufacturer provided). A decent, but run-of-the-mill wheelset.

Sorry, but the LHT has superior wheels. You can rebuild around those XT hubs probably for the entire life of the rider. Tiagra hubs probably aren't worth rebuilding around.

wentworth

so now theres a c'dale t800 thrown into the mix. i found a used one for roughly 500 bucks. its the yellow one with deore. maybe i should use this as a donor bike for the lht frameset??? The thing that i dont like about the t800, is the fact that its aluminum... does anyone have any experience w/ alu. touring bikes? what about the components on the lht complete vs the t800 complete? any preference between the two?