Satyr

More a question about Rivendell frames, but with touring/daily four season commuting in mind.

Anyone have any experience with the various Rivendell frames (including the Atlantis and Herons). What really separates say, a $1300 US production frame (Atlantis) from a fully custom $2500 frame (Rivendell proper), from a $400 Surly frame?

Once I recover from the dent that my current Surly Long Haul Trucker put in my wallet (long time), I was thinking of getting a Rivendell for a second steed, but the price is intimidating. (Hell, I feel awkward having spent 1500 on a complete bicycle. The whole "don't trust activists that have a new expensive car" thing. But hey, I don't even own a car!)

I am not really even sure why the idea of a Rivendell appeals to me so much, other than that it speaks to my love for the fantasy genre, and they're based in California.

cmugel

I will be interested to see what responses you get, because I'm now looking at all three. I'd be interested also in your comments on the Surly Long-Haul Trucker, which is considerably less costly. The fact that you are thinking of upgrading already suggests the Surly is less than you want. Please let us know. I don't want to buy the Surly frame and build it up if I'll immediately want to upgrade to a Heron.

late

Hi,
the Surly LHT and Trek 520 are full blown touring bikes. They are intended to haul tents, bags, and stoves. They are a little slow. There is nothing fancy in the construction.

If you can throw a few more bucks at the situation you find Gunnar/Waterford. Gunnar is made by Waterford, and it's a sweet bike.
They don't make a touring bike, but the Sport can do lite touring.
I have ridden a Sport, and loved it. Waterford bikes are nicer. The construction and design are top notch. All Waterfords are custom, which makes them a very good value. They are great bikes. Their full blown tourer bike is an expedition bike. It's intended to cross continents. Notice the plural. It makes rugged bikes like the 520 or LHT seem wimpy. It's not all that heavy, but it's not designed for speed. They make everything from racers on down, but it's something to be aware of. Rivendell has a great rep. They get great reviews, Jimmy Carter has one. They are quite expensive. The pictures don't do them justice. They are beautiful.I'd love to try one.But I don't think they have a production tourer. And they use 26 inch wheels on some frames. I prefer a 700c wheel. Beyond that there are many other small frame makers. If it was my nickel, I'd go for the Waterford.

Satyr

>>The fact that you are thinking of upgrading already suggests the Surly is less than you want. Please let us know. I don't want to buy the Surly frame and build it up if I'll immediately want to upgrade to a Heron.<<

Actually I love the Surly (edit: it's a 60cm frame, so sports 700c wheels). My racks (Tubus Duo and Cargo) fit great on it, there is no interlap with the wheel, and my heels don't hit my panniers (Carradice). She's sturdy, can fit fat tires, and the sage green color is pretty too.

I asked about the Rivendell because I commute year round and eventually want to get a second bicycle, which in the short term will probably be a used beater. However, eventually (at least a few years from now, probably more) I'd like to get another bicycle that is of the same/better quality as the Surly. And also, I just wanted to get a bit of information about Rivendells and custom bicycles in general, due to the very fact that the Long Haul Trucker has done me so well so far.

So there you have it - the Surly has my definite seal of approval.

toddw

I'm in the same boat, however, I have not yet bought anything. Currently, my rides are an old Chicago Schwinn Vouyager built into a respectible tourer, an a Grant Peterson designed RB-1, and an old Trek 950 MTB built into a 26" wheeled tourer/winter bike. Grant Peterson would go on to start Rivendell after Bridgestone left the U.S. market.

Rivendell makes the Atlantis which has been called one of the very best as far as touring goes, the bigger sizes use 700c wheels and the smaller sizes use 26" wheels. The Rivendell website has all the justification.

My problem was I wanted to replace the Schwinn with something modern - ie., not with 271/4 inch wheels and a rear spacing of at least 130mm, leaning towards 135mm opposed to the Schwinn's 126. But can't afford alimony and the Atlantis if you know what I mean.

I looked real hard at the Surly LHT and the Urbane touring model. Urbane is a Canadian bike maker (https://ucycle.com/bikes/index2.php?cat=urbanite) and their touring bike is respected as well. The Urbane frame and the Surly are both close in price and both TIG welded. For me, 2 strikes against both bikes is the biggest size they come in is 62 cm, and my most comfortable bike, the BStone, is a 64. I'm pretty sure I could get comfortable, the Schwinn is a 62 and I do fine, but I'm not positive.

Finally, I trekked to a dealer who had the Atlantis to take a closer look and my friends, I'm sold. I don't care if it takes another 12 months of scrimping and saving, the Atlantis is the bike for me. The Schwinn will just have to do until then. It's the lugs, the beauty of the bike is beyond description. The ride is amazing, better than my Bstone and it comes in 64 and sizes even bigger.

I would suggest look hard for a bike that you can ride before making the leap.The size thing, I know 2 freaking cm, but it bugged me enough to add into the mix.

As for the difference between an Atlantis and a full Rivendell custom, that's even harder. I've never had a bike built around the great many quirks of my body and I have to believe it's akin to heaven.

Good luck with the LHT

murraylove

"The fact that you are thinking of upgrading already suggests the Surly is less than you want. Please let us know. I don't want to buy the Surly frame and build it up if I'll immediately want to upgrade to a Heron."

Here's the thing: the Surly Long Haul Trucker is almost a carbon copy of the Rivendell Atlantis, geometry-wise, right down to using 26" wheels on frame sizes below 56cm and 700C wheels above. That's why I got one. If you wrapped an Atlantis and the equivalently sized LHT in duct tape(!), put identical components on them and rode both, I doubt you'd be able to tell which was which. The LHT is cheaper for the following reasons: 1) It's tig-welded in Taiwan rather than hand-brazed in Japan, 2) It's made out of generic double-butted chromoly, compared to the custom tube mix on the Atlantis, 3) It doesn't have beautiful lugs, and 4) It's got a single-tone (quite nice) powdercoat paintjob compared to the two-tone job on the Atlantis.

Other than that, they're virtually the same bike. Since most of a frame's ride qualities come from its geometry rather than its material (despite what the magazines claim), the LHT is a near-perfect Atlantis substitute for those who can't afford a Rivendell.

Photos of my 60cm LHT here: https://photos.yahoo.com/murraylove

Istanbul_Tea

My wife and I both have Rivendell Atlantis' and love them. Couldn't be more happy.

The ride is unlike anything we had ever experienced before... the look of the cycle, stunning.

The price... very inexpensive when you consider you're getting a 2-toned, fully lugged, handmade, limited production-just 400 made per year frameset with an Ultegra threaded headset and all the brazed on fixin's for touring for $1300.00?!?! That's dirt cheap in my book.

Yes, you can get a LHT and yes, it might be very similar in the fact that QBP copied Grant's geometry on the Atlantis BUT...

It's not a Rivendell, not an Atlantis, not lugged, not limited to a handmade run of 400 per year, not available with 2 tone paint and not as pretty by a million miles.

Just my opinion... and yes, if I had an extremely limited budget and there was NO way I could EVER save up enough scratch... I'd buy the LHT too but however I'm also a fan of, "Where there's a will... there's a way". So I say-

Buy The Atlantis!! You'll be more happy in the long run.

cmugel

A helpful post. Thank you. I've been looking at Surly LHT, Heron, Gunnar, Rivendell, Fuji World, etc. -- except that there are none to be tested here in Richmond, Va. Frustrating when everyone says fit is so important and you should test ride as much as possible, and then there is nothing to test. Surly surely is one of the more affordable options.

Bassman1994

I've had the same question for a while: LHT vs. Atlantis? What decided it for me is the Rivendelle website (www.rivbike.com). There is a ton of information - articles, advice, tech info. Plus the accessories they carry are top quality including the clothing lines and misc stuff. What really got me was the list of charitable organizations they support. For me, for cycling to be a way of life, it should really be all inclusive. I want to know the company supports some good causes instead of only worrying about the bottom line. I'm sure SURLY is a fine company and is involved in charities and their community - I don't want to belittle them at all. But Rivendell, as a company, based on their website, seems more like the place I want to spend my money.

imi

uh the Atlantis frame fork and headset costs $2000
https://www.rivbike.com/products/list...product=50-038

sjauch

Check the date on the post you quoted.

Cyclesafe

I have a customized Co-Motion Americano Co-Pilot with a head tube extended 2cm that seems to fit me perfectly. I never have had any aches or pains after riding that couldn't be attributed instead to just over doing it. I obviously didn't ride it before I bought it and in fact never rode anything close to it either in fit or in materials. I just bought on faith.

But this isn't any different for someone buying a stock touring bike. Because the model you want and size you need probably won't be in stock. The stock bike also has to be bought on faith.

If low cost is a primary need, buy the stock bike. A custom bike will cost more. Full stop.

If you are tough to fit, get a custom bike. Saving money on a stock bike that doesn't fit is no savings at all.

If you want some particular characteristic, like a lugged frame, disc brake mounts, S&S couplers, a funky color, or a specific material of construction, you might have to go custom.

I think it's useless for me to describe how wonderful it is to ride my custom bike, as I have no means of comparision. I mean it could be really awful versus a stock frame. Few people can be objective. all I can say is that I'd do it again.

Cyclesafe

WTF? A five year old post?

imi

wah! sorry didn't see that... dang people using the search function!!

NeilGunton

A lot of people say that the LHT is an exact copy of the Atlantis geometry, but that doesn't appear to be so. For one thing, the LHT is 26" in the 54cm, and goes to 700C starting at 56cm, whereas the Atlantis is still 26" at 56cm - 700C starts at 58cm. Also, the other dimensions are not identical at all - to take two models with the same wheel size, for example, the 58cm: The top tube on the LHT is 580.1mm, Atlantis 585mm. The chainstay length on the LHT is the same across the board - 460mm. The Atlantis CS is 44cm for the 26" sizes, and 45.5cm on the 700C. BB drop on the LHT is 78cm, Atlantis 80cm. Close, but not exactly "carbon copy". Or am I just splitting hairs here? Maybe someone with more knowledge of frame geometry can educate me - do these differences make any real, well, difference?

Sources:
https://www.rivbike.com/images/static...etryCharts.pdf
https://www.surlybikes.com/longhaul.html

Neil

Solomander

I have a Rivendell A Homer Hilsen that I like a lot. It's a beautiful bike and fun to ride. It is more plush and versatile than it is fast. It's a great counterpoint to my Litespeed. It is not meant for loaded touring. I have a bit of trouble imagining a bike like this for touring, because it is sure to get beaten up. Every scratch, chip or other compromise in the frame's surface integrity would be a bit of a bummer. When I finally do a tour, I expect to do it on a bike that I won't feel badly about getting knocked around. I still wonder why a more durable metal finish for touring bikes has not been found.

Joel

NoReg

"Or am I just splitting hairs here? Maybe someone with more knowledge of frame geometry can educate me - do these differences make any real, well, difference?"

Those are real differences, how much they will be picked up on in blind tests is another mater, but all road geometry is pretty standard, so a 1.5 cm difference in CS length is big, unless one wanders off into bikes with extra long stays in the 60s. The problem with the Surly is that the smaller sizes are probably a better design. Being consistent in CS length is marketing.


"What really got me was the list of charitable organizations they support."

Very admirable, but for 1100 dollars in savings you could "do a lot of good" on your own.

The only problem I have with the Riv bikes is that you can buy a lot better bikes for 1500-2500. For 2500 you can get a custom frame from the best in the business. It's a personal mater whether you want to deal direct with a builder, or through an outfit like Riv. At the very least, those prices open up the whole universe of bikes. On the other hand, 400 dollars gets you a lot of frame but it isn't custom and it doesn't have the quality control one should expect from a hand made frame.

nun

I own several Rivendells and love them all!

I bought my Rambouillet as I was looking for a fast bike that I could use for ultralight loaded touring with good tyre clearance and it was one of the few options available. The build quality is excellent, I like the lugs and I feel great zipping alone on tour. It's nice to be comfortable getting out of the saddle on hills and being able to throw the bike from side to side. The long reach (some call them standard reach) caliper brakes were a major spec I was looking for as they allow for 32mm tyres and fenders while still giving excellent stopping power.

mtclifford

I personally think Rivendell's are beautiful bikes, though I know a lot of people have panned the Atlantis for being made overseas. Frankly I don't care where it is made as long as it is solid, however for the price I would almost consider a custom made frame local to me.

MyWar

This makes me love my surly even more....

roberth33tiger

i have a pristine 99 atlantis, 64 cm, on Ebay 120450807800. check it out

kpfeif

It's called a powder coat. It's available on the Surly LHT, or from your local powder coat guy. He'll charge you $75. It'll look great and last forever.



ps That frame cost $75 and is gorgeous. I'm still trying to decide what to do with the $1925 I saved. Perhaps I'll donate some to charity...

Veloria

Where are you finding "local powder coat guys" to do frames for $75?... Everywhere I look, powdercoat jobs start at $250 for single colour.

positron

It depends where you live. People ALWAYS quote the lowest price though. outside DC it was 200, outside tucson AZ, it was about 100. same quality both times but in Tucson, it was a 'batch' job, meaning I had a few small bits and bobs (stem, rack) done at the same time for no addtl. charge. in DC, the stem would have been 50 more.

Johnny Alien

I view this as a perfect chance to show off my Bleriot!