xizangstan

Good question, Lee. I'm thinking that I should have my cross-country touring tires on a set of heavy duty wheels. Maybe 36- or 40-spoke? And for the 32-spoke wheels I have now, save them for the offroad balloon knobby tires. Switching out complete wheelsets with tires seems to be a better alternative than peeling tires and tubes constantly. And I think the road tires should be on the higher spoke-count wheels, what with the touring load put on them.

Or have I been smoking something?

And back to the question: For cross-country touring, what hubs and rims do you guys think are the most durable and trouble-free?

sstorkel

After watching a 200+lb buddy repeatedly huck a mountain bike off 4-6ft drops with 32-spoke wheels, I have to wonder if bicycle tourists really need outrageously strong wheels. Granted, my friend: knows what he's doing, rides a full-suspension bike, and uses fat tires. Still, riding down paved roads with a couple of panniers and hitting the occasional pothole seems like a cake walk compared to what this guy puts his wheels through...

AsanaCycles

the main difference is in the rim, where a DH rim starts out at around 34mm wide, as compared to road rims around 23mm wide.
not only is it in the width, but also the strength in the box section.

which brings us to the difference between a rim for a 29er vs a 700c rim

AsanaCycles

I use a set of WTB LaserDisc DH laced to XT hubs 36h 4 cross with brass nipples. I use these wheels on my cargo bike. A Surly Big Dummy. The bike is rated to 400lbs. I don't own a car. My life is Bicycle Centric. I've carried things like a 1/4 cord of wood, I've moved my belongings 5 times, and I've done a bunch of touring on it too...

uhh... the wheels are strong.

I should have started with a DH wheelset, I destroyed a set of Sun Rhyno's and like a silly guy, one day there was a deal on MAVIC 317's, so I laced them up, and they lasted not even a weekend, when I crashed the BD and the rear wheel hit the ground. Bike unloaded. wheel taco'd

AsanaCycles

are they the ceramic sidewall versions?
alloy or brass nipples?
how old are the wheels?

do you have a suspension fork?

what racks are you using?

how much do you think gear + rider + bike = total ?

you might consider a tyre like Sefras Drifters.

gitarzan

Recognized it right away. Nice looking rack. Got one on my Secteur. (White bike in sig) Looks great on curvy bikes.

xizangstan

I have been to Rocky Mountain Cyclery a couple of times, IN PERSON. I was ripped off badly! It's a little shop on a corner in an old residential section of a small town. Not what one would expect. I take it that someone who is quite good with computers built them a great website. I know I would never go back. In fact, since them, I have been to several other shops in northern Colorado - especially in Ft. Collins, Colorado. And I had a custom titanium rear rack built by Black Sheep Bicycles out of Ft. Collins. Very nice.

As for wheels, I'm still shopping. But if you prefer to shop online, I really like the prices and service at JensonUSA.com. (I'm not an investor nor am I associated with them. I just like being treated well)

NoReg

As far as 32 spokes are concerned you don't really need more on a 26" wheel. 32 is the 36 for 26" wheels. That said it's easy enough to get a 36 spoke rim for 26", and it is like having a 40 on 700c, so why not go there. The only downside is that you might not find a replacement hub or rim on the road, but you shouldn't need it either. I think it is better to have reliability in the first place particularly since in the worst case the whole wheel can be replaced cheaply almost anywhere.

My formula for a bombproof wheel is LX hubs (sturdy choice, higher end hubs aren't necessarily stronger). Straight spokes of good quality, and DH22 rims.

https://www.alexrims.com/product_deta...=2&cat=2&id=69

If you can't get the DH22, get some Aeroheat.

fietsbob

People have chosen to build both wheels with 40 or 48 spoke wheels on single bikes.
the high spoke count wheel is not really needed , but in event the rear one were damaged,
the front rim becomes the spare , and a common 36 hole front wheel is purchased.

LeeG

Call PeterWhite and get one rear wheel built on a 36hole LX hub with any of the heavy rims. You don't need a new front wheel as it's already pretty strong unless you're going to be carrying mondo amounts of weight on the front.

or one of these

https://www.shopwiki.com/_Handspun+Re...19,+36h,+Black

jcbryan

Lots of great builders out there, www.youngwheels.com, Brian at Hubbub.com. I can recommend either one as good builders of touring wheels.
BUT better yet, build your own! Not too big a deal, and you will know it's right!
Best, John

jcbryan

And Joe Young (www.youngwheels.com) is in Granbury TX, some 1 hour north of you South of Ft Worth.

Derailed

+1 in that wheel building isn't hard -- if you start with new and good parts. I like "stuff" so I bought a book, a truing stand and a tensionometer, and every wheel I've built has held up incredibly well. It seems to me that the "art" of wheel building / repair comes in when one starts with an out-of-round/true rim.

But, if one starts with quality new parts, he can get excellent results by systematically following step-by-step instructions. (I bought The Bicycle Wheel by Jobst Brandt [Amazon.com], but Sheldon Brown's online instructions [SheldonBrown.com] would work just as well.)

It is hard to get good deals on individual wheel parts (compared to a machine-built wheel), but this is much cheaper and, IMHO, just as good as what one can get from the "boutique" wheel builders, unless one wants something exotic or rebuilt using existing parts. But, seriously, if you're using a new Shimano hub, 32 or more brand new spokes, a simple spoke pattern, and a new rim, there's nothing to it.

BigBlueToe

I weigh 200 lbs. and carry a pretty big load. I had a tour ruined by successive broken spokes.

I went to a local, trusted mechanic and said build me a rear wheel that won't break spokes. He did and no spokes every broke. He told me the quality of the hub was more important than the quality of the rim. It had Mavic 719 rims but I don't remember what kind of hubs (That bike is gone - given to a nephew). It had straight spokes.

I decided to try building my own wheels, using Sheldon Brown's instructions. Based on the site's recommendations, I bought Mavic 719 rims (36-spoke), double-butted spokes (Harris Cyclery didn't have triple), and Shimano hubs - LX? I can't remember. I also bought a Park truing stand, a Park tensionmeter, and a dishing tool. The wheels came out pretty good - not perfectly round, but I haven't broken a spoke after three tours.

If I was going to buy some touring wheels and I had the money, I'd call Peter White. Harris Cyclery also guarantees their wheels not to break spokes.

Building my own wheels was fun, instructive, and very satisfying - especially since they've held up. It was also a good excuse to buy some good tools, which I can now use to give my wheels a tuneup every year before a big tour. However, I'm guessing I would have gotten better wheels if I'd paid Peter White or someone similar to do the work.

zoltani

Got a great set of Mavic 719s on ebay from rockymountaincyclery. Nice seller to do business with, and the wheels haven't given me a bit of trouble the past 4 years. Only had to true them up twice to boot!

xizangstan

I've been buying my wheels off of eBay, sticking with brand new Mavic rims and Shimano XTR hubs. I've purchased hubs and rims separately, having a local bike shop provide the spokes and do the assembly and truing only twice. Otherwise, I've bought new Mavic 717s with XTR hubs complete.

I'm looking for another pair of new wheels, but completely assembled and ready to roll. I have a vintage GT Xizang titanium mountain bike that I bought new in 1995. Over the years since then, my body has changed some and so has my riding. Now, my bike is spending more time on improved trails and roads. So I switch wheels and tires around on a whim, depending on what kind of ride I want to go out on any particular day. It's nice to have the tires mounted and not to have to fool around with peeling tires off and mount others.

Oh... I bought a $300 Brooks leather saddle new from Rocky Mtn. Cyclery last spring for $480. Such a deal. No way will I ever go back.

NoReg

"However, I'm guessing I would have gotten better wheels if I'd paid Peter White or someone similar to do the work."

Possibly if you feel they were out of true, but the secrets of wheel building are out, and the tools today allow anyone to do a fine job. I think the reputations of people like PW come from their reputation being established back when the information wasn't well known, and his refusal to compromise or adopt fads. But one can easily follow such paths oneself. There is very little skill in the building process, once you put in your time to learn steps, it's just turning the wrench.

BigBlueToe

Hmmm. I took my completed rear wheel to my trusted local mechanic for an evaluation before heading out on a big tour. He put them on the stand, checked them out, stroked his chin, and said, "Not bad for a first attempt." That made me feel pretty good.

However they were a little out of round. So when I'm riding I'm probably bobbing up and down a half a millimeter or so on every revolution, though I don't notice anything. I'm guessing he or Peter White or someone like that could have done better. But like I said, I've ridden my wheels on three heavily loaded tours and nothing has broken, so I consider myself a success. I'll be trying for four this summer.

How many tours do you think I should attempt before I do something like respoking them or building a new rear wheel?

Monoborracho

+1 x 100 on letting Joe Young build your wheels. We're a 350# tandem team and have over 2000 miles on the set he built for us. I recently got a new st of 36 spoke Mavic A719 with White Industry hubs for my Trek 520. I did 350 miles on them on the C&O/GAP right out of the box.

And I'm lucky, I only live an hour or so from Joe so I get to go see him and visit with him when I get new wheels.

tony chen

i like this bike

RoadieRex

I bought a set of wheels from them last month. I wanted an "all black" wheel set for my orange Motobecane Fantom CX. I ended up getting Mavic A319 rims, Shimano 105 hubs, and DT spokes for ~$260 shipped. I like the online wheel builder program they have. There's another wheel builder online that uses a similar method of piecing together your custom wheels from lists of components, but they were more expensive.

Bicycle Wheel Warehouse took a little over a week (maybe closer to 10 days) to get my wheels to me after I ordered.

Sixty Fiver

It is the start of the season here and all I seem to have been doing is repairing and building wheels... fixing them can be much harder than building up new with straight and well spec'd parts with a known history.

Rebuilt the back wheel on my Trek hybrid / tourer yesterday after the first wheel failure in more than a decade... it is a 32 spoke wheel that had been laced 32/3 to a Mavic MA40 and had broken 3 Berg butted spokes over the course of 2 years and had seen many thousands and thousands of miles.

Part of this probably stems from sucking an XTR derailleur into my back wheel at low speed some years ago (the wheel "survived") and although these have been very good spokes in many wheels they aren't like DT Swiss when it comes to surviving this kind of incident.

Rebuilt it with DT Swiss 14 gauge straight spokes after finding a 3rd broken spoke (snapped when I was inspecting the wheels) and that was enough for me to rebuild the wheel.

I am 145 pounds and load this bike up quite heavily, take it off road, commute with it, tow a trailer, and and log some extreme mileage and my front wheel is a 40 spoke tandem wheel with a Sansin tandem hub laced to a Mavic MA40 which is total overkill but I doubt it will ever fail.

When it comes to building touring wheels for myself I can go pretty light and have been running some older single walled rims that have never needed to see a spoke wrench until the rims wore out... a wider section rim of good construction can take a lot of abuse as long as the wheel is built really well.

For other people I build with very good parts and build according to need... recently built a set of 48 spoke 26 inch wheels which is what we equip on touring tandems or for very big single riders and you could ride extreme DH on these or take them touring around the world.

Modern standard is a quality double walled rim, DT Swiss or Wheelsmith spokes, and a well made hub... like PP said an LX hub is as good as you will need and are great for the budget conscious and a CR18 rim will take you everywhere.

If we go beyond 36 spoke lacings we usually skip the 40 spoke lacings and go to 48... if you are putting 40 spokes in a wheel you probably won't care if a wheel weighs a little more and is just that much stronger.

Would consider a modern 36 spoke 700 wheel to be pretty adequate for most riders... rarely see 40 or 48 spoke wheels on any bikes unless we built them.

My partner is a frame builder and machinist and has built many hundreds of wheels even though he does not call himself a wheel builder... has built some of the finest wheels I have ever seen just because like everything else he does, he is very precise in doing it.

Related that once upon a time he used to build his wheels, heat them in an oven and then let them cool before making final adjustments in order to build 0/0 wheels for racing as he felt the heating and cooling cycle eliminated the building stresses very effectively.

He has been doing this long enough to see how much parts have improved over the past 6 decades and this is probably why more people are taking to building their own wheels as when you have really excellent parts building wheels is so much easier.

MTBMaven

I got my touring wheels from Bicycle Wheel Warehouse. These guys were great. I spent maybe 20-30 minutes on the phone with them talking about option when placing my order. At no point did they try to up sell even when I was leaning towards the more expensive option. They provided very sensible and pragmatic advice. The wheels were bullet proof and will be use on an upcoming Utah Cliffs Loop tour, which includes about 100 miles of dirt. They are pretty local to me (they are based in Huntington Beach, ca) so I had the wheels in a few days.

NoReg

I don't think you need to worry about that. The first sign of trouble will be if the wheels become untrue. If they do, then you may have failed to implement the full program, most particularly got them up to full tension, or evenly tensioned. retruing them and making any required adjustments to full tension may be a permanent fix. There are a dozen or more details involved in making strong wheels, so unless you followed a good set of instructions you may have left some steps out. Sheldon's instructions are the ones I follow for lacing (I do a new wheel every few decades so I do forget), but his overall instructions are not consistent with best practices as I understand them. I doubt the very best wheels I have used were perfectly built anyway, so you don't have to do everything to get wheels that stand. Still I would scrutinized a bunch of sources, particularly Brandt.

Vertical eccentricity (I wasn't sure whether this was known or assumed), should not be a problem. Ever seen a wheel with the center way out? There is a type of scooter that one pumps along the road because the hub is off center an inch or two. What you want though is consistent spoke tension at max tension. So if your bobble is just an out of round wheel with perfect tension flow, that would be one thing. If it represents a serious kink where there is a balance of badly out of tension spokes, then you have a stress riser. You can see which of these it is by measuring spoke tension with a meter or by plucking for pitch.

On properly built wheels with quality spokes, the spokes are eternal and will outlast a dozen or more rim replacements. A single spoke pop with good components that are well suited to each other (not all brands work together, copy something known), is just an opportunity to get rid of a weak link, but most people take it as an opportunity to replace all the spokes. That puts of the upgrade until that new set of spokes is broken in, or tossed itself. I use some cheap paint brushes, and they come in two forms. One will drop hairs into the job for a while, but if one sticks with the brush, it will eventually clean out, and no longer drop hairs. Others just keep dropping hairs until the whole head falls out, and these are to be avoided. But as I say, there are both brushes and wheels where a few hairs or spokes lost are part of the break in and not a reason to start over.

truman

I source the parts online, buy them cheap, then pay a local guy some quality beer to lace them for me.