robert schlatte

What I said is a general statement of the law of trespass to land in the U.S.- Black's Law dictionary. There may be slight variations in definition. What is your authority for saying otherwise.

Walter S

The actual state of Georgia law, which I think is close to most other states. You're not trespassing unless there's a sign or you are asked to leave and refuse to do so.

https://law.onecle.com/georgia/16/16-7-21.html

I think you have misunderstood this topic somehow. What are you reading that makes you think trespassing applies without a sign?

robert schlatte

You may not be guilty of criminal trespassing and subject to fines and penalties where there is no sign but it is trespass nonetheless if you set up camp on private property without permission. I am not saying don't do it, just saying if you can get permission it is better and you can avoid embarassing consequences.

Walter S

Personally most of my camping is "in the woods". It may often be private property. That does not mean I know who owns it. And if I did, I still may not want to face the angry dog etc while I go knocking on a stranger's door and explaining my situation.

If I can be stealthy in and out of the woods, leave no trace, and be gone by sunrise, I usually prefer that to asking around. It may be your definition of trespassing. But I prefer the legal definition myself.

I'm not entirely thrilled with the idea of property ownership anyway. Certainly not to the extent that I can be bared from laying my head down for a night of sleep just because all these woods are "yours" or "his". It's God's creation.

I always camp on unimproved property away from towns and usually not within sight of a house.

robert schlatte

Walter, the legal definition of trespassing is entry onto the land of another without permission. It is not "my" definition. If you want to stealth camp, fine with me, but don't be under a misconception that it is not trespass.

Rowan

I can tell you now that I, as an employee on a farming property that you most likely would find most attractive because it appears to be unoccupied and with considerable bushland, to get the hell off and not return.

We don't allow anyone to camp, one of the reasons being hygiene, and another being the fact that I and the owners don't know if you are there for a night or want to be there for a week. We have valuable farming equipment and various chemicals, as well a fuel in bulk on the property, For all we know, you're there to steal that stuff, and that's a risk we can't take.

Public land is fine. But I've never camped on private property without permission and never will.

You also might think you are stealth camping, but a property owner or manager knows their land intimately. You may think you are hidden, but you aren't.

MassiveD

That is the rub, if the owner doesn't mark it, then how would one know. That is why some jurisdictions require the marking and tossing, and others require the camper to stay clear of areas that have obvious signs, such as Ag, fencing, etc... It is pretty clear what these common law jurisdictions have in mind.

Depends also on the place. Some places are pretty much all sewn up, others have a lot of open land.

MassiveD

Hygene is a real issue, particularly if the land is likely to get a lot of visitors, not just one in a million years. But that can be dealt with, the camper just has to do so. I sense that most do not.

Theft or other fears are reasonable, but that is not the business of stealth camping. Yes I would ask to leave, but the reality of someone one an expensive bike with a K of gear staying around for a week, o hauling off your Ag chemicals, is pretty much zero. So what this comes down to is a misconception that if the owner had full information, might not be there. Or of the owner had no information...

As far as seeing the camper, that is terrain dependent. There are many places where a person would not be seen if one walked by at 3 feet. The main limitation here is that the steps required to ensure stealth, make the experience less attractive to campers. Also, it depends on the type of operations. An open thing like a vineyard, may allow the operator to have knowledge of the whole area. But where there are forested areas, it is not uncommon for the owner to only rarely be present in them, such as winter timber cutting.

Walter S

You might not know if I'll be there a week or a day. But I do. It doesn't matter what you think, particularly when you're not aware. If it's hilly woods, as it is in my part of the country, you won't know I'm there. And when I'm gone, I leave no evidence. You might think you know what's going on with your property but if it's hundreds of acres of woods do you really? No. But if you're going to lose sleep over this then post a sign dude!

Rowan

My farm manager has been running the property for over a decade. He knows it like the back of his hand. Likely every branch on every tree, and every rock on the ground. He can spot a two-inch red and white fishing float under seaweed on the property foreshore from 50' away.

There are all sorts of clues as to what people are up to. A gravel road is very revealing, for example -- tyre tracks that veer off and never reappear, and footprints. Then there is trampled grass, the unclosed (or closed) gate. Startled stock. A rising flock of birds. A glint in the sunshine from a place where there isn't anything reflective.

And there is the bush telegraph -- you think you are alone out there in the forest, but maybe not. A quick phone call to say two characters on bikes have just gone down a track they shouldn't have will set off a search to see what it happening.

It's always better to check. Farming families generally are a pretty friendly and helpful lot and are quite willing to accommodate if the right approaches are made.

Rowan

That's a really arrogant attitude you are taking. You think you leave no evidence, but you do. And yes, I've lived on a property with hundreds of acres of woods, and I have known what is going on.

I really get the impression that you're just another city dude who regards the countryside as your plaything where you'd do things you wouldn't do in the city -- such as trespass on other people's properties.

Aushiker

On my Chasing the Dirt tour I often camped on station land and without permission. Often these stations are over a million acres in size with the homestead potentially 100 kilometres or more away even if I knew where it was. Plus it can be days of riding between public camping opportunities. I guess if you hold emphatic views on stealth camping this is not the country for your touring. Each to their own in my view.



Andrew

Rowan

Outback Australia and the wilds of Western Australia are somewhat different to the farmlands of North America that are being discussed here. The roads through the stations are public, and the paddocks are rarely fenced.

North American property owners and managers have a somewhat different approach to delineating their land -- and where there is a fence, that is the boundary.

Walter S

Wrong. I have two homes. One in Atlanta and one in the South Carolina countryside. I "own" 27 acres of woods myself. And if the occasional bicycle traveler spends the night I will be pleased that I've provided some help to that individual. Again, I'm not talking about messing with an agricultural enterprise. I camp in the woods well away from any structure, equipment, etc.

I'm glad your objections don't matter. I'm following the law. So bug off.

rifraf

I cant see an Australian contribution to the thread being any less valid or worthy for readers of the thread with an interest in stealth camping.

I'm only sorry that someone didnt start their own thread on the matter instead of such wide tangent (IMHO) to the original thread topic.
This is especially as there is obviously wide and strong feeling alternate view points to be shared.

I'm in the pro camp myself with no apologies but respect the right to an opinion of those who are opposed.

I've stealth camped in a few different countries (not the Americas yet) and have mostly gone unnoticed.
I utilise a bivy bag when in the places I maybe shouldn't so am fairly well able to pack up quickly and quietly if sprung by an objecting land owner/manager - hasn't happened yet but I'm sure it will one day.

I make a point of leaving no trace, like mess, litter or fire and am not too concerned by anyone getting too upset by my bending blades of grass and twigs.

My fear isnt irate landowners but more drunken teenagers spotting my camp, hence my setting up camp on last light and being gone before daybreak.

ironwood

What's this all got to do with Dynamo lights?

rifraf

Some one felt compelled to expand on the original topic and felt it was within the bounds of the original posters remit as there was a mention of stealth camping (if I correctly understood their post)

Walter S

Like others have pointed out it's frequently not clear at all who's land I'm on. You might think my presence is known, but it if is then it is apparently known by people that don't object. I'm careful to be stealthy but if I'm found out then so be it. I'm not doing anything illegal.

Walter S

I'm compelled to point out that you're again calling my presence "trespass". I don't think you correctly understand the meaning of that word. I'm not trespassing when I camp on unimproved property that's not posted.

wphamilton

WalterS is right, in Georgia: https://statutes.laws.com/georgia/tit...part-1/16-7-21

We've had prairie wars over this issue, and then ranchers and farmers got into it. It's all a big compromise between conflicting rights; nobody has an absolute on this.

So my question is, is the dynamo that essential for stealth camper types or is it easy to find an electrical outlet to charge up every few days?

rifraf

Just reiterating my 2 cents worth in that "for me", there is little worse than sitting around waiting for batteries to charge.
When touring I tend to spend 4 or 5 days camping wild before looking to find a campground.
This has a lot to do with my financial position in life as well as my current locale having huge distances in between towns/campgrounds.
Being forced to sit in campground bathrooms/laundries for hours at a time to charge things up is just not viable or pleasant.
It would be the 2 minutes you risked turning your back on your phone or gps etc on charge that it disappears.
I use the campgrounds mostly for the chance to shower, wash my clothes and maybe explore the locality without having to break camp and pull down the tent every morning.
I dont regret the expense of the dynamo hub/E-werk combo at all and only wish I'd had the foresight and funds to invest in them earlier.
I rarely use my lights when actually touring but being able to keep my accessories/phone etc charged enhances my "on the road" experience very positively.
Being able to use the lights at will without worrying about batteries is a huge bonus especially as I'm now car free and rely on my one bike for commuting, touring as well as a quick jaunt up to the local shop for some milk and bread.
I like my set up so much, I'm investing in a second charging set up in a single wheel (dynamo hubbed) trailer for both water carrying duty as well as keeping up with charging my photography gear and laptop.

Happy spinning

Walter S

+1. I certainly wouldn't quit riding if I had to charge batteries every few days. But with the miracle of technology we have why would I? I'd rather ride!

wphamilton

Would it be the same concern if it was solar panels you could set up at the campsite instead of a public electrical outlet? Assuming you could find lightweight panels that could fold or roll up into a small package (I don't know if those exist yet, but if they did).

rifraf

For me, your still sort of stuck while you wait for your items to charge and not to mention, I imagine at a slower rate than a wall socket.
Last I looked, decent solar panels were pricy and you had the bulk and extra weight to put up with.
Proportional to output power I imagine.
Whilst the suns shining, I'd prefer to be riding.
For me, the dynamo hub appears a superior solution if your looking at long days in the saddle and doesn't rely on the weather being nice although I tend not to charge my phone or gps if its raining.
I am happy to utilise the lights in all weathers, but draw the line at risking getting my new iPhone wet.

Perhaps less of an issue for those cycling shorter daily distances with some hours of daylight to spare?
My touring style is such that I ride often to close to dusk.

Walter S

Solar would be no good for me. The vast majority of the time I spend at the camp is nightfall. I show up late evening and I'm almost always gone before the sun comes up.