Carbonfiberboy 

Not another one of these! Let's see, I've been riding bikes since 1951. Rode to school, back and forth to town and long, all day rides in summer. I was pretty good on platforms. Then in 1962 I got my first derailleur bike with rat traps and toe clips. I was totally blown away. I learned to rotate my feet the second day on the bike and it was like having a new wheeled device entirely. I was a rocket ship. I could beat cars off the line and hammer the steepest hills, pulling up like a maniac. Clipless pedals are of course even better.

Toe clips on rat traps and clipless are about the same thing. Clipless are a lot safer, since the way you use toe clips is to yank up on the strap until it's impossible to remove your foot, then tuck the strap into the retainer so it won't come loose. If you don't have real cycling shoes with a cleat on the bottom, you carve grooves in the bottom of your shoes for the rat traps to fit into and get the same thing. Only thing is that they cut off the circulation some, so you get cold feet in cold weather.

So they figured this out in the 19th century, and here people are still "theorizing" about it. The idea of toe clips or clipless is that your foot is attached to the pedal. This means you have 360° degrees of freedom to apply force to said pedal. You pull back at the bottom, you can yank like the devil on it on the upstroke, push forward at the top, and of course in all the degrees of force application between those directions which are 90° apart, because what you want to do is to always apply force at right angles to the crankarm.

Toe clips and clipless make the bike feel turbine-powered. You just make your feet into turbine blades and away you go. Now maybe I'm a little unusual in that it only took me a day to figure out how to do this, but I doubt it. However, I was 16. Be that as it may, for some folks there does seem to be a learning period, a period where one learns the neuromuscular control to rotate the pedals properly. And not just the control, but also the strength. Many different muscles have to fire at exactly the right moment and with exactly the right force to spin the pedals. Apparently this can take years for some folks. So for the folks who say, yeah I tried them and it didn't make any difference, no it probably didn't. It's just like learning to climb. You have to work on it, sometimes for years, until you catch on. Now then, a lot of folks don't want to bother with figuring out how to pedal. There's folks who don't want to bother shifting gears, either.

So when I picked the bike back up at 50, I'd forgotten how to pedal. I spent my first two years on the bike trying to relearn the skill.

The quickest way to pick this up, once one can ride fairly well, is to get a set of rollers and a computer with cadence. Get up on the rollers, shift into a very low gear, and bring the cadence up to 115-120. Just hold it there. Hold it . . . hold it . . . for up to 45 minutes continuously, holding your upper body completely still. When you can do that without bouncing or breathing hard, you can pedal. Hint: pedal with the uppers and just keep at it until you can do it. Everyone can. It just takes practice, maybe 100 hours?

Further research for those so inclined:
https://www.radlabor.de/fileadmin/PDF...MSS_-_2011.pdf
Perfect Pedaling Technique [BIKE/SPLIT]
Pedaling Efficiency.wmv - YouTube

krobinson103

I'm happy with platforms. Clipless probably is more effective if you really want to sprint, or win a race but I don't feel the need to win any races. Give me a nice set of mtb platforms (like they used in the video) and I'm happy. I don't want clipless. I don't want special shoes for riding my bike and I definitely don't want to be attached to my pedals.

Flam24

For touring, I don't know about the efficiency of clipless, but for comfort I think they're great.

staehpj1

The fact that I really miss my clip-less setup when I ride with no retention system once in a while is good enough reason for me to use clipless.

WarrenR

I'm with you, I've been back to cycling for 15 years with 12 years of commuting in all weather and can't remember my feet slipping off my pedals. Good rubber on rubber platforms works for me. Now that I've started running 5+ hours in the saddle I like to move my feet around a little.

BigAura

I'm more comfortable with clipless so that's what I use. Perceived enjoyment of the entire touring experience is what touring is about for me. Fractional efficiency has nothing to do with touring plus I'm never going to tour on a treadmill.

andrewclaus

I'm a retired engineer and I like to throw cost into the equation. Many who discuss this topic don't consider the cost of pedals and shoes. (Most cyclists I see around here spend more on those two items than I spent on my entire bike.) They're more efficient, but is it worth it? Will you save enough in fuel cost over the life of the system to reach payback? (That's a joke--of course not.) For a racer, they can provide a competitive edge which may make a difference in earnings and that makes sense.

When I wore out a pair of SPD shoes I bought when I had a paycheck, I had enough sticker shock over the price of new shoes that I switched back to my old platforms with toe straps and they work just fine on my limited income. They actually improved many things, because I like to get off the bike and walk around, sometimes on rocky trails, on my typical rides. And there's one less pair of shoes in the closet.

I just saw a film, "Premium Rush" about bicycle couriers in NYC. The star rides a fixie with platform pedals and toe straps. That surprised me. He runs a lot on the pavement, too--maybe that's why.

mm718

I tour on platforms for the same reasons that you tour on clipless and agree with everything you say. I know this is a tired subject but I posted the video because the results are counterintuitive and I'd hate for someone new to touring to be talked into clipless as I was when they are completely unnecessary. I was told by my LBS that I would lose 2 mph without clipless and left feeling that if I really wanted to be serious about cycling that I would have to cough up a couple hundred more dollars. I could have toured for two weeks on that amount of money not to mention hours of research on clipless pedals, three mail order shoe returns, 3 sock purchases go get the fit right, ongoing cleat adjustment, lubing of cleats, uncomfortable waking, need to bring extra shoes, 1 fall, etc. I am not pooh poohing clipless per se just the idea that it's the only way.

nun

The results in the video don't seem statistically significant to me. I'm in an interesting middle ground in that I clip in on the right and ride a platform on the left. In the rain I find my left shoes sometimes slips, but I like it being free for any unexpected need to stop. I feel that for climbing steep grades being firmly attached to the pedal is far better that a platform.

djb

I look at it this way, thinking of efficiency--I've always been a skinny, not very strong rider, so when it comes to strapping 20 or 30 or 40lbs of stuff onto my bike, I will take any slight advantage I can get--ESPECIALLY when we're talking about going up long or steep hills.
I've always kinda figured that when going up a steep hill, I can go up maybe one gear higher with my spds vs non, and/or feel like its easier on my legs with a bit of pull back thrown in there for good measure when climbing. Maybe because I'm not very strong, as my spd shoes are very comfortable, ie they fit my feet very well so I don't have sore feet at the end of a day, and I would want to get out of my biking shoes anyway (meaning, if I had non clip in shoes, I'd want something else to get into and out of those stinky sweaty bike shoes) so having some lightweight comfortable shoes or sandals are always going to be in the picture.

in the end, if someone prefers regular pedals, thats up to you, who cares? I personally wouldnt want to be riding all day pushing a loaded bike with soft flexible running shoes that are hard on the arches, but hey, you decide what you prefer. A good stiff soled riding shoe is good too, I've ridden on spds for over 20yrs so its just natural.

bradtx

mm718, I have one bike with platform pedals and I'm a bit out of sorts when I ride it. I've used a retention pedal exclusively for at least twenty years. I learned how to use them and practiced with them for the most benefit until it's become second nature. When maximum power delivery becomes required or maintaining a smooth spin these systems can't be beat.

The platform pedals are much more convenient. Any shoe style can be worn, no issues clicking in or out (or strap adjustment) and a grippy platform pedal can be pulled through BDC of a pedal stroke. Likewise a platform pedal equipped with half of a clip in, no strap, can be used to push a pedal through TDC.

My one bike with platform pedals is a touring bike, but if I were for some reason wanting or needing to actually use it instead of my primary touring bike I'd swap the pedals. I think maintaining a smooth spin has benefits and I need a retention pedal to do so.

Brad

mm718

I didn't think so either but I couldn't help but wonder if they might have been had he not been talking and swerving. He seemed discombobulated by not being attached. Slick shoes on tiny pedals can't help either. The take away for me wasn't so much that platforms out performed clipless but where were all of these wild gains I've been hearing about from clipless pedals. An N of 1 for 10 minutes probably couldn't detect that anyway.

JimmyH

Back in the '60s I rode platforms, no clips or straps. The kind with teeth to help prevent slipping off. Then in the '70s I was introduced to toe clips and straps. Never tightened the straps and did away with them entirely eventually, since the clips held my foot in the proper position, and if I needed to bail the straps didn't restrict me.

I discovered clipless in the '90s. I was a 'late bloomer.' Once I found the "right" pedals/cleat system that suited me, I vastly preferred clipless. I still use platforms with toe clips, and no straps, on my fixed gear for road riding, which helps to remind me of why I prefer clipless.

I haven't been to the velodrome in years, too far with gasoline at $3.00 +, but when I used to go, strapped into the pedals, I never did feel 'comfortable' being locked in like that. YMMV. I think it is a matter of what you get used to. On singletrack off road I definitely prefer clipless. If I'm doing technical riding, obstacles, I don't want to pull a foot accidentally. Can be a disaster when it is unintended.

mm718

I have the same philosophy as far as any slight advantage. I pack light, try to use fast tires at optimal inflation, etc. If a generator hub reduced my efficiency by even one percent I wouldn't do it. The idea of intentionally making things harder for myself is unappealing to the say least but platforms haven't hindered me in any discernible way.

You're right "who cares" but I wish I wouldn't have bought into the clipless thing so quickly and wasted the time and money. I feel safer, more comfortable on and off the bike, and I can climb the exact same hills as I do with clipless. No issues with my arches, shoe odor, or shoe flex. I'll likely be removing the clipless pedals from my road bike, not THAT'S heresy Thanks for your thoughts. I still have a lot to learn and I benefit a lot from the collective experience here.

fietsbob

I Am clipless, on platform pedals from Ergon, when it rains.. I wear LL Bean's rubber Moccasins. they keep my feet dry, and the slip on Mocs, are easy to step into .

But thats JRA locally ,

I own Shoe covers Bought when heading out for my 2nd to 11th month long Irish-Scottish tour.

pamaguahiker 

It's all personal preference.

LesterOfPuppets

If you still have your cleats and pedals, I know of a deal on shoes if you wear a size from 36-41. Only $15

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...g-shoe?ss=3020

andrewclaus

I do, and thank you.

LesterOfPuppets

I got two pair and on one shoe I had to trim some sole material to allow the cleat to sit flush.

Tourist in MSN

I prefer having both platform and clipless (SPD cleats). Shimano M324 pedals, platform on one side and SPD on the other.



If I was worried about efficiency, I would hire a domestique to carry my water bottles for me, and ... ... maybe my panniers too.

sonatageek

For my not so fast riding I have settled on platforms with the non-strap toe clips. The clip is small, it is enough to hold my foot on the pedal and is easy to get a foot out. I have my pair of SPD pedals and shoes, but just find it easier to deal with using street shoes.

Leebo

I use clipless off road and flat pinned pedals for pavement. On tour I use keen sandals , very comfortable for pedaling and walking around. I also carry a light weight pair of flip flops for off bike camping too. YRMV.