Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Pushing or Pulling on Clipless?

Search
Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Pushing or Pulling on Clipless?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 02-09-15 | 04:05 PM
  #1  
Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
Pushing or Pulling on Clipless?

Okay so I finally went to clipless for the first time. Didn't fall on my first ride so thats an accomplishment.

One thing Im curious about is, what is the correct way to pedal.

I ask because people told me that a large reason you go for clipless is because you use your energy more EFFICIENTLY***, that you are using energy both pushing down and now pulling up.

The thing is, it doesn't feel any different. It still feel as though i'm only using energy pushing down. The ONLY time I feel my pedal stroke as "complete" is when I pull up with my legs, if that makes sense.

Before with platforms, I would push down and then let the momentum of the initial pressure to bring the pedals back up.

Man this is coming out jumbled. I just hope someone understands what this convulated post is getting at

Last edited by dippitydoo; 02-09-15 at 04:26 PM.
dippitydoo is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 04:12 PM
  #2  
bbbean's Avatar
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 2,781
Likes: 511
From: Missouri

Bikes: Giant Propel, Cannondale SuperX, BMC Time Machine, Univega Alpina Ultima

Pedal in circles. Use the same motion you'd use to wipe mud off your feet. Focus on pushing your foot forward and back.
__________________

Formerly fastest rider in the grupetto, currently slowest guy in the peloton

bbbean is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 04:23 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,368
Likes: 159
From: Meridian, ID

Bikes: '96 Trek 850, '08 Specialized Roubaix Comp, '18 Niner RLT RDO

Clipped in, I pull through the bottom of the pedal stroke, enough that now when I ride a bike not clipped in I tend to pull my foot backwards off the pedal at the bottom.

I don't consciously pull up a lot except when climbing a short hill, it gives a nice boost to the pedal rpms and my speed but of short duration. I do try to visualize my feet moving in circles, I think that helps too. Be sure you are very comfortable riding clipped in and not falling before you devote too much attention to this other stuff though!
jimincalif is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 04:27 PM
  #4  
EjF's Avatar
EjF
Awesome Member!
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Central, MA

Bikes: 1992 Bridgestone Hybrid, 2015 Trek 8.4 DS

It took me a while to get used to effectively pushing and pulling with my pedals. One thing I practiced was to try and just pull on both pedals without pushing at all. Just the opposite of what you were doing before clips. Let the shoes just take a ride on the push stroke. You can also alternate by pulling on one side only, then the other - pull only and no push. You can even throw one shoe out of the clip and try just pulling as you ride. What I learned was how the pull stroke worked and once you get used to it the result is a much more efficient ride.
EjF is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 04:55 PM
  #5  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 9,201
Likes: 289
From: Vancouver, BC
Originally Posted by dippitydoo
I ask because people told me that a large reason you go for clipless is because you use your energy more EFFICIENTLY***, that you are using energy both pushing down and now pulling up.
A common fallacy. Being clipped in is more comfortable but has no effect on efficiency. You're still doing exactly the same amount of work, except clipless allows you to distribute the work a little differently and ever so slightly reduce the peak force applied to the pedal. But it isn't more efficient and I wouldn't expect an improvement in performance.

When you're riding at a steady pace and not sprinting there's little difference between riding on platforms and being clipped in. When sprinting or standing up on a steep hill or starting from a stop clipless allows one to apply more power but not for any length of time.
gregf83 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 05:03 PM
  #6  
datlas's Avatar
Should Be More Popular
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 46,194
Likes: 11,755
From: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Honestly, I think the only real pulling is done when out of the saddle. Yes, you should focus on moving your feet in circles and this probably off-loads the opposite pedal a smidge.

The real reason to be clipped in is to be "at one" with the bike.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 05:21 PM
  #7  
KLiNCK's Avatar
Optically Corrected
 
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 586
Likes: 68
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Bikes: 2012 Specialized Sirrus , 2012 Specialized Roubaix Comp

What I notice most about using clipless pedals is that they keep your feet properly positioned on the pedals even when going over bumps. It is surprising how much your feet "bounce around" on platforms after you have been using clipless for a while. If you have just started riding with clipless there is only one certainty; you will fall over (a couple of times ) until releasing your cleats become second nature. Like everything else it just takes practice until muscle memory sets in and then you will never look back at using platforms.
KLiNCK is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 05:52 PM
  #8  
yankeefan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
From: NYC

Bikes: Too many to list

The "pulling up" effect is often over exaggerated; the vast majority of your power is generated on your downstroke. The real benefit of clipless pedals are the fact that it forces you to use cycling specific shoes. Many people use running shoes or whatever they can find under their bed and often these soft sole shoes have very poor power transfer, meaning that the force you apply is often absorbed by the shoes instead of being transferred to the drive train.

The other benefit of clipless is that it provides foot retention- in very aggressive riding situations when you need to apply a lot of torque your feet may slip off the pedal. This can also happen if you are riding in wet weather and your platform becomes slippery.

There are benefits to "pulling up", as it engages different muscle groups (mainly calves) and with experience you will learn how to distribute the load. You won't generate significantly more power, but the load will be distributed more equitably. The best way to learn this is to practice one-legged drills: find a park or a quite road and just pedal with only one foot clipped in. You'll find that in order to avoid being fatigued too quickly you need to distribute the load throughout the pedal revolution.

Last edited by yankeefan; 02-09-15 at 05:56 PM.
yankeefan is offline  
Reply
Old 02-09-15 | 05:59 PM
  #9  
hairnet's Avatar
Fresh Garbage
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,190
Likes: 30
From: Los Angeles

Bikes: N+1

just ride
hairnet is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 07:46 AM
  #10  
Thread Killer
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,140
Likes: 2,162
From: Ann Arbor, MI

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

First of all, pulling up an the back stroke is not an efficient way to pedal, not only because it's virtually impossible to coordinate biomechanically at pedaling speeds, but because it's robbing Peter to pay Paul, and whatever miniscule torque you generate back there comes at the expense of propulsive force in the power stroke; all of the sudies I've seen show that.

One may want, momentarily, to pedal with different muscles, but it invariably is less efficient and less powerful than pushing all the way through the power phase (like 12 0'clock to 5).

As has been stated, the big reason to use clipless is for foot stability and security; you can simply focus on driving the pedals and not worry about keeping your foot placed or having them bounce around and slip off, which could be fatal. Being connected like that also allows more fine control in handling.
chaadster is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 08:06 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,681
Likes: 253
From: Minnesota

Bikes: N+1=5

Originally Posted by bbbean
Pedal in circles. Use the same motion you'd use to wipe mud off your feet. Focus on pushing your foot forward and back.
^^this.

It takes some practice, concentration and attention to detail. Start by concentrating on this whenever you are climbing, even small grades. You can easily get 30% more power out of something like this. Makes a huge difference.

Lots of videos on youtube that illustrate the technique.

J.
JohnJ80 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 08:11 AM
  #12  
kingfishr's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 323
Likes: 2
From: Lund, Sweden

Bikes: Ridley Noah, Trek Emonda, Colnago C59, Colnago Master, 1980 Colnago Super, Wilier Blade

a really interesting comparison of pedalling with and without clips...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNedIJBZpgM
kingfishr is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 08:21 AM
  #13  
~>~
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,929
Likes: 187
From: TX Hill Country
Originally Posted by dippitydoo
I ask because people told me that a large reason you go for clipless is because you use your energy more EFFICIENTLY***, that you are using energy both pushing down and now pulling up.
The Efficiency effect is very slight, but not negligible if comparing clips & straps vs. clipless.
Make sure that your seat height is correct and work on a supple high cadence pedaling style for efficiency.

Positive, reliable and easy to engage/disengage Foot Retention is the big advantage to going w/ clipless pedals.
Having one's feet firmly, precisely and comfortably positioned on the pedals is important as other's have noted as is being able to dis-engage w/ a simple "click".

"Back when" a mass start race pre-clipless used to include the inevitable wobbling/shoulder banging start as the less coordinated struggled to reach down and tighten their off-foot toe strap. Not particularly sightly or safe.
The ceremony of tightening toe straps for the big climb/crunch/finishing sprint disappeared w/ clipless, I always enjoyed that moment of drama........

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 02-10-15 at 08:45 AM. Reason: drama
Bandera is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 08:37 AM
  #14  
wphamilton's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,278
Likes: 342
From: Alpharetta, GA

Bikes: Nashbar Road

Originally Posted by dippitydoo
...
I ask because people told me that a large reason you go for clipless is because you use your energy more EFFICIENTLY***, that you are using energy both pushing down and now pulling up....
That's probably a myth in my opinion, and even if true you only have so much power to put to the pedals even while standing.

I can tell you one situation where I'd really like to use clipless (tho I don't): very high cadence sprinting. High intensity intervals, sprinting with a group, that sort of thing.
wphamilton is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 08:43 AM
  #15  
pdedes's Avatar
ka maté ka maté ka ora
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,423
Likes: 4
From: wessex

Bikes: breezer venturi - red novo bosberg - red, pedal force cg1 - red, neuvation f-100 - da, devinci phantom - xt, miele piste - miche/campy, bianchi reparto corse sbx, concorde squadra tsx - da, miele team issue sl - ultegra

Pulling up only slightly unweights the leg. Don't worry about it.
pdedes is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 08:45 AM
  #16  
thump55's Avatar
I got 99 problems....
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,087
Likes: 3
From: Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Originally Posted by dippitydoo
I ask because people told me that a large reason you go for clipless is because you use your energy more EFFICIENTLY***, that you are using energy both pushing down and now pulling up.

The thing is, it doesn't feel any different. It still feel as though i'm only using energy pushing down.

Here is the biggest, simplest truth I can tell you about clipless:

You are feeling what everyone feels the first time they use them. You have heard how much better they are, and you did not feel any magic when you started using them. You aren't going faster and you thought you would.

But you will. Use them for a while. Get your new pedaling muscles built up, get used to them, and then try going back to platforms. THAT is when you will see how much better clipless has made you. You may not think you are pulling up on the pedals, but when you go back and try platforms, you will be pulling your foot off the pedal. That's when you can tell clipless is much, much better.
thump55 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 12:46 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 6,431
Likes: 44
From: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted by thump55
Here is the biggest, simplest truth I can tell you about clipless:

You are feeling what everyone feels the first time they use them. You have heard how much better they are, and you did not feel any magic when you started using them. You aren't going faster and you thought you would.

But you will. Use them for a while. Get your new pedaling muscles built up, get used to them, and then try going back to platforms. THAT is when you will see how much better clipless has made you. You may not think you are pulling up on the pedals, but when you go back and try platforms, you will be pulling your foot off the pedal. That's when you can tell clipless is much, much better.
Uh, well that proves that it changes your pedal stroke, but does not prove that it increases your efficiency.
PaulRivers is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 12:48 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,745
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL

Bikes: S-Works Roubaix SL2^H4, Secteur Sport, TriCross, Kaffenback, Lurcher 29er

Originally Posted by thump55
Here is the biggest, simplest truth I can tell you about clipless:
They are better because they hold your feet in place.
svtmike is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 02:26 PM
  #19  
thump55's Avatar
I got 99 problems....
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,087
Likes: 3
From: Does anyone know where the love of God goes, when the waves turn the minutes to hours?
Originally Posted by PaulRivers
Uh, well that proves that it changes your pedal stroke, but does not prove that it increases your efficiency.
I never said more efficient, just better.
thump55 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 02:41 PM
  #20  
Thread Killer
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 13,140
Likes: 2,162
From: Ann Arbor, MI

Bikes: 15 Kinesis Racelight 4S, 76 Motebecane Gran Jubilée, 17 Dedacciai Gladiatore2, 12 Breezer Venturi, 09 Dahon Mariner, 12 Mercier Nano, 95 DeKerf Team SL, 19 Tern Rally, 21 Breezer Doppler Cafe+, 19 T-Lab X3, 91 Serotta CII, 23 3T Strada

Originally Posted by JohnJ80
You can easily get 30% more power out of something like this. Makes a huge difference.

J.
Easily 30% more power? You have got to be out of your mind!
chaadster is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 02:59 PM
  #21  
merlinextraligh's Avatar
pan y agua
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,812
Likes: 1,234
From: Jacksonville

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Originally Posted by bbbean
Pedal in circles. Use the same motion you'd use to wipe mud off your feet. Focus on pushing your foot forward and back.
This.

However, realize all the data indicates it just doesn't matter; your body figures out how to be efficient.

If you want to work on your pedal stroke, one legged pedal drills ( alternate legs for one minute each, work up to 10 repeats.

And fast pedals (110-120rp) in an easy gear, work up to 5x5. And your pedal stroke will naturally improve.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 03:06 PM
  #22  
merlinextraligh's Avatar
pan y agua
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,812
Likes: 1,234
From: Jacksonville

Bikes: Willier Zero 7; Merlin Extralight; Calfee Dragonfly tandem, Calfee Adventure tandem; Cervelo P2; Motebecane Ti Fly 29er; Motebecanne Phantom Cross; Schwinn Paramount Track bike

Originally Posted by JohnJ80
^^this.

It takes some practice, concentration and attention to detail. Start by concentrating on this whenever you are climbing, even small grades. You can easily get 30% more power out of something like this. Makes a huge difference.

Lots of videos on youtube that illustrate the technique.

J.
All the data says it just doesn't matter how you pedal. There's a famous study with Jacque Anquetil that found how you pedal really doesn't matter.
__________________
You could fall off a cliff and die.
You could get lost and die.
You could hit a tree and die.
OR YOU COULD STAY HOME AND FALL OFF THE COUCH AND DIE.
merlinextraligh is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 03:27 PM
  #23  
hairnet's Avatar
Fresh Garbage
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 13,190
Likes: 30
From: Los Angeles

Bikes: N+1

Originally Posted by thump55
But you will. Use them for a while. Get your new pedaling muscles built up, get used to them, and then try going back to platforms. THAT is when you will see how much better clipless has made you. You may not think you are pulling up on the pedals, but when you go back and try platforms, you will be pulling your foot off the pedal. That's when you can tell clipless is much, much better.
And then once you learn how to ride a bike again with flat pedals you realize it isn't such a big deal. Clipless is a tool that you can use to do things better but it won't make you better if don't know how to take advantage. I think most people don't really know and they ride clipless cuz road bike and everybody else is.
hairnet is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 03:46 PM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,496
Likes: 6
From: SoCal
The only thing that focusing on pulling up will do is get you into trouble when you eventually come accidentally unclipped while pedaling hard
rms13 is offline  
Reply
Old 02-10-15 | 04:43 PM
  #25  
Senior Member
10 Anniversary
 
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,681
Likes: 253
From: Minnesota

Bikes: N+1=5

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
All the data says it just doesn't matter how you pedal. There's a famous study with Jacque Anquetil that found how you pedal really doesn't matter.

What I'm saying is that you can deliver more power per revolution of the pedals. I am not saying that you can delivery more power to the pedals with the same energy. It's not saving energy, it's giving you the opportunity to deliver more power per revolution.

J.
JohnJ80 is offline  
Reply


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.