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Old 07-05-05, 09:12 PM   #1
SkinGraft
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Vegan Nutrition and Training Help

Ive never been too good with eating right and that has only increased once i became vegan two years ago, so I'm wondering if anyone can give me any tips as far as making sure I'm getting the right amount of protein etc. Basically I don't want anything to hold me back from getting in tip top shape for next years race season.
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Old 07-06-05, 07:30 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by SkinGraft
Ive never been too good with eating right and that has only increased once i became vegan two years ago, so I'm wondering if anyone can give me any tips as far as making sure I'm getting the right amount of protein etc. Basically I don't want anything to hold me back from getting in tip top shape for next years race season.
Variety is your friend. Get lots and lots of different veggies and different starchy carbs as well as tons of varied protein sources -- don't get bogged down in faux meats or tofu, branch out into your legumes, broccoli, nuts and seeds, etc. Most endurance athletes take about 10% of their calories as protein, which shouldn't be terribly difficult without animal products, but you might want to boost that to make sure you're getting enough amino acids for muscle rebuilding despite plant products being a smidge more difficult to process than animal products.

The ADA Position Paper on Vegetarian Diets is a good read. I also really like the book Eating Well for Optimal Health by Dr. Andrew Weil, which although it does not specifically support a diet free of animal products, it does outline the basics of a supremely healthful diet where animal products are definitely not central.

Also, you might want to formulate your goals based on what's realistic for you. You may not be able to support the muscle growth necessary to be a top sprinter, but your endurance will be top notch and you should be able to get a good power-to-weight ratio for climbing.

May I ask why you've chosen a vegan diet-style? Do you follow a vegan life-style as well?
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Old 07-06-05, 07:33 AM   #3
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I am a vegan.
My advice:
1. In addition to eschewing all animal products, also avoid all processed foods and hydroganated oils and trans fats. My rule is that anything other than a fruit, veggie or bean must have 4 grams of fiber or more per serving (a serving being between 100 and 250 calories). Avoid all white flour and processed crap.
2. Pay attention to your protein intake. I try to get 60 - 80 grams of protein a day (at least during triathlon training season). To get enough protein here's what I do: (a) eat high protein/high fiber cereal with soymilk in the a.m. (Kashi go lean or wild oats performance) this gets me about 20 grams of protein, (b) snack is an apple - about 2 grams, (c) lunch is bean soup or salad with beans on it, etc about 12 - 15 grams of protein, (d) snack is a vegan boca burger (15 grams) or a bag of edamame (20 grams), (e) dinner is a salad with beans (12 - 15grams), a stir fry with tofu (20 grams), or whole wheat pasta with veggies and beans (25 grams) (f) nighttime snack is fruit (2-5 grams).
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Old 07-10-05, 11:26 AM   #4
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I'll be straightforward and let you know I'm hijacking your thread. I'll give you some help though. Black beans, kidney beans, soy beans (edemame) all have fair amounts of protein. Mix some in with that fake ground beef stuff and you've got a good start to a vegan taco. Another favorite of mine is to take the medium firm tofu, and cook it like scrambled eggs with lots of vegetables and potatoes in it, then cover it with salsa. Easy in more ways than one.

I've also been morphing toward vegan from vegetarian; but basically just doing what I can to avoid animal products. So I've gone to soy milk, eat fish less often, etc. But I'm wondering what to do for eggs? Not by themselves but for cookies and cakes. My understanding is that the fake eggs cannot replace them because the eggs are used to bond stuff together in those recipes. Second, is there a good cheese alternative? The only way I'm making it as a vegetarian is because cheese can make anything taste good.

Third, avoid the Boca brand if you can. It's owned by Kraft, who are in turn owned by Phillip Morris. Gardenburger brand isn't though! (But you get less protein from them so put some cheese on it ;-)
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Old 07-10-05, 11:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by sestivers
I'll be straightforward and let you know I'm hijacking your thread. I'll give you some help though. Black beans, kidney beans, soy beans (edemame) all have fair amounts of protein. Mix some in with that fake ground beef stuff and you've got a good start to a vegan taco. Another favorite of mine is to take the medium firm tofu, and cook it like scrambled eggs with lots of vegetables and potatoes in it, then cover it with salsa. Easy in more ways than one.

I've also been morphing toward vegan from vegetarian; but basically just doing what I can to avoid animal products. So I've gone to soy milk, eat fish less often, etc. But I'm wondering what to do for eggs? Not by themselves but for cookies and cakes. My understanding is that the fake eggs cannot replace them because the eggs are used to bond stuff together in those recipes. Second, is there a good cheese alternative? The only way I'm making it as a vegetarian is because cheese can make anything taste good.

Third, avoid the Boca brand if you can. It's owned by Kraft, who are in turn owned by Phillip Morris. Gardenburger brand isn't though! (But you get less protein from them so put some cheese on it ;-)
The Boca's taste like crap. I like the Morningstar Farms brand.
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Old 07-10-05, 12:25 PM   #6
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I still buy the Boca brand. I don't mind encouraging kraft to produce better food.
100 calories 15 grams of protein like 6? of fiber. Wow!
Most all the gardenburgers have cheese and milk in them. i do think they make one vegan one though.
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Old 07-10-05, 07:11 PM   #7
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That's up to you, but I'm not going to give someone my money for them to use trying to get my kid to smoke.
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Old 07-11-05, 02:26 PM   #8
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Just to set something straight: I just rode a double century on a fixed gear Saturday without the aid of any animal products in or on my body. I can use that fact next time I hear someone claim that you need animal protein to be strong and healthy.
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Old 07-11-05, 04:36 PM   #9
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Just to set something straight: I just rode a double century on a fixed gear Saturday without the aid of any animal products in or on my body. I can use that fact next time I hear someone claim that you need animal protein to be strong and healthy.

A-Fing-Men.


My father-in-law is always giving me grief about me being a herbivore. Not only did I blow by him in the last 10k run we did together, I beat him soundly by 15 minutes.
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Old 07-11-05, 07:30 PM   #10
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Your "father-in-law?"
Wow, way to go. He's only probably 25 - 30 years older than you.
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Old 07-11-05, 07:31 PM   #11
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That's up to you, but I'm not going to give someone my money for them to use trying to get my kid to smoke.
Do you own any mutual funds?
If so, are they socially conscious funds? If not you may be supporting the same company and others like it.
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Old 07-11-05, 07:38 PM   #12
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Your "father-in-law?"
Wow, way to go. He's only probably 25 - 30 years older than you.
true that. I don't mind vegans trying to promote their way of life (I'm not a vegan or vegetarian), but claiming it's the only way to live is just arrogance. I mean, people can choose to do and eat whatever they want. To each his own. Saying you soundly beat someone in a race even though you didn't have anything that came from an animal just comes off as arrogance IMO.
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Old 07-11-05, 07:49 PM   #13
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true that. I don't mind vegans trying to promote their way of life (I'm not a vegan or vegetarian), but claiming it's the only way to live is just arrogance. I mean, people can choose to do and eat whatever they want. To each his own. Saying you soundly beat someone in a race even though you didn't have anything that came from an animal just comes off as arrogance IMO.
I don't disagree.

Ok a point on this whole vegan thing: you don't just fall out of bed one day and decide to be a vegan which takes a lot of discipline and include giving up the majority of food in the world. When I go to resturants there typically is about one or two things I can eat. I end up eating salads all the time when I go out to eat. It can be a tough road. In order to eat this way a person has to be very passionate about his/her beliefs. Those beliefs will fall in one (or both) of two camps: (1) moral reasons, (2) health reasons. When people who eat "normally" start in on veganism or give their opinions against it you can typically expect the vegan to react very defensively because we feel passionately about what we are doing and how we are eating. I also find that the vegans I know have researched nutrition and how they eat very thouroughly.

I do not think that vegan is for everyone. But, I have personally "converted" at least 6 people to eat this way who would not have ever considered eating this way previously. How have I converted people? Not by nagging them and pissing them off - instead by example. Its people who knew me when I ate the typical American diet and people who know me now. They can tell that I look much much better and feel better and have more energy.

Go check out "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman from the library. Read the first two chapters. See if you can put it down. See if there is anything you disagree with.
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Old 07-11-05, 08:35 PM   #14
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I don't disagree.

Ok a point on this whole vegan thing: you don't just fall out of bed one day and decide to be a vegan which takes a lot of discipline and include giving up the majority of food in the world. When I go to resturants there typically is about one or two things I can eat. I end up eating salads all the time when I go out to eat. It can be a tough road. In order to eat this way a person has to be very passionate about his/her beliefs. Those beliefs will fall in one (or both) of two camps: (1) moral reasons, (2) health reasons. When people who eat "normally" start in on veganism or give their opinions against it you can typically expect the vegan to react very defensively because we feel passionately about what we are doing and how we are eating. I also find that the vegans I know have researched nutrition and how they eat very thouroughly.

I do not think that vegan is for everyone. But, I have personally "converted" at least 6 people to eat this way who would not have ever considered eating this way previously. How have I converted people? Not by nagging them and pissing them off - instead by example. Its people who knew me when I ate the typical American diet and people who know me now. They can tell that I look much much better and feel better and have more energy.

Go check out "Eat to Live" by Dr. Joel Fuhrman from the library. Read the first two chapters. See if you can put it down. See if there is anything you disagree with.
See, I know I would have a very tough time if I became a vegan. I had some gall bladder problems recently (had surgery to remove it) so there was a period of about 2 months where I couldn't take in more than 15-20 grams of fat per day. So I ended up eating salads out. I was so worn out and I was losing weight like no one's business. I just couldn't keep it up. Now I incorporate meats into my diet usually on a daily basis but I eat chicken (breast), turkey (breast), tuna, and other types of fish. I rarely if ever have red meat and I can't have pork (jewish). I find it works out well for me with this diet of meats and complex carbs like whole wheat pasta and brown rice. So, you can see someone's diet will fit them much differently than it would someone else. We just need to find our own way to live and everything will be ok.
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Old 07-12-05, 12:04 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by cheebahmunkey
true that. I don't mind vegans trying to promote their way of life (I'm not a vegan or vegetarian), but claiming it's the only way to live is just arrogance. I mean, people can choose to do and eat whatever they want. To each his own. Saying you soundly beat someone in a race even though you didn't have anything that came from an animal just comes off as arrogance IMO.
I don't think the point was, "Me Vegan, Me Smash Carnivores!!!!" So much as, "My performance makes it clear that my diet doesn't slow me down."

peace,
sam
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Old 07-12-05, 08:28 AM   #16
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I don't think the point was, "Me Vegan, Me Smash Carnivores!!!!" So much as, "My performance makes it clear that my diet doesn't slow me down."

peace,
sam
you're right. I got the two posts mixed up a bit. The first one wasn't saying that but the second came off as arrogance.
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Old 07-14-05, 01:54 PM   #17
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No. Let me break up my post for clarification, and a bit more detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santaria
A-Fing-Men.
This is my reaction because of my father-in-law. Which I prefaced to this statement

Quote:
My father-in-law is always giving me grief about me being a herbivore.
By this. I guess I need to get very specific, which my intent was to attempt not to give a long-winded post regarding my father-in-law again (read my prior posts and you'll see what a non-supportive jerk he's been for the last 8 years I've been with his daughter).

A. He's told me that all vegetarians are homosexual by connection.
B. He's told me that no vegetarian is a true athlete. They lack the ability to compete. Period.
C. He's told me, repeatedly, that the human body must have animal fat or the person goes insane.
D. He's threatened to have me thrown in a mental institute because I became a vegetarian.

Now, let me further branch this out in saying that he is a retired First Sergeant from the U.S. Army who prides himself on his ability to run. He's a former marathon runner (supposedly) and loves to rub my face in this fact. He's gone so far as to tell me I can not keep up in something as small as a 10k race.

The facts are, these statements above were not said to me once, or twice. I hear it 3-5 times a week when he comes to see my son, my wife, or me. I've asked him to stop, and he's taken it as a new weapon to entertain himself by bullying me with it.

It is these belittlements and the past that spurned this statement

Quote:
Not only did I blow by him in the last 10k run we did together, I beat him soundly by 15 minutes.
You have to understand further, the 10k race was his idea. He thought he'd be able to beat me and then proclaim that 'vegeraniasm' was a 'disease' to me. He sat at the starting line proclaiming to all how much of a loser I was because I refused to eat animal fat.

So yes, in essense it was very arrogant of me.

Let me go on further and say if you trace back to my original post here, I have only recently been free from nicotine (March 1st) and since I was a smoker for 21 years, this feat was pretty profoud being I took on an old-school 'jock' and soundly kicked his ass in his choosen sport.


I do apologize if I offended, that was not my intention. It was more one of being proud and agreement.
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Old 07-14-05, 04:15 PM   #18
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No. Let me break up my post for clarification, and a bit more detail.

This is my reaction because of my father-in-law. Which I prefaced to this statement
By this. I guess I need to get very specific, which my intent was to attempt not to give a long-winded post regarding my father-in-law again (read my prior posts and you'll see what a non-supportive jerk he's been for the last 8 years I've been with his daughter).

A. He's told me that all vegetarians are homosexual by connection.
B. He's told me that no vegetarian is a true athlete. They lack the ability to compete. Period.
C. He's told me, repeatedly, that the human body must have animal fat or the person goes insane.
D. He's threatened to have me thrown in a mental institute because I became a vegetarian.

Now, let me further branch this out in saying that he is a retired First Sergeant from the U.S. Army who prides himself on his ability to run. He's a former marathon runner (supposedly) and loves to rub my face in this fact. He's gone so far as to tell me I can not keep up in something as small as a 10k race.

The facts are, these statements above were not said to me once, or twice. I hear it 3-5 times a week when he comes to see my son, my wife, or me. I've asked him to stop, and he's taken it as a new weapon to entertain himself by bullying me with it.

It is these belittlements and the past that spurned this statement



You have to understand further, the 10k race was his idea. He thought he'd be able to beat me and then proclaim that 'vegeraniasm' was a 'disease' to me. He sat at the starting line proclaiming to all how much of a loser I was because I refused to eat animal fat.

So yes, in essense it was very arrogant of me.

Let me go on further and say if you trace back to my original post here, I have only recently been free from nicotine (March 1st) and since I was a smoker for 21 years, this feat was pretty profoud being I took on an old-school 'jock' and soundly kicked his ass in his choosen sport.


I do apologize if I offended, that was not my intention. It was more one of being proud and agreement.
No, you didn't offend.
Enteraining explanation.
Sounds like a real *******.
He'll likely die of a heart attack.
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