jslopez

My wife has been really trying to lose weight. She's 25 and was slender but after a few years in North carolina's wonderful food and lifestyle she's gained a bit of weight.

We're now in LA and she's been working very hard these last four months , spinning classes 3 times a week pilates 2 times, no more sodas, selective on what she eats and she would have been biking to work these last few months had she not been traumatized by a minor encounter she had with a car.

We really can't explain why she's not losing the weight but we have substitued one of the spinning classes with a longer 2+ hour moderate spinning session.

It's been abut 4 months since the lifestyle change and while she's still at it, I'm afraid she'll be discouraged if she doesn't see results soon.

DannoXYZ 

It's a tough catch-22. The majority of the energy used daily is to maintain constant body-temperature. Unfortunately, the more weight you gain, the less heat and calories you need to burn to maintain that temperature. This is based upon volume-to-surface-area ratio as well as body-fat percentage (more fat retains heat better). Taller people also have more surface-area to their mass/volume so they tend to require more calories per day to stay warm. So women in general have three things going against them:

- shorter height
- lower surface-area to volume/mass ratio
- higher body-fat percentage

To figure out what's going on, we need more data. Can you post her weekly workout-schedule? Time & intensity (HR). Also what kind of meals she's getting? If she's cutting back on too many calories, we may be having a famine response.

sillygirl

Its harder for women to see progress - i am sure we can all debate the million reasons why, but it seems to be true, especially when you are just tring to lose some weight and you are already close to your natural resting point.

My advice from someone who has been there and done that: add strength training into the workout regime. Also, we all know no matter what the diet, it comes down to calories in and calories out. The best way to see whats holding you back is to write down everything you eat (even including that one bite of icecream of your plate). 200 calories a day can make a huge difference, which might simply be cutting down on the daily latte or smaller midday snack.

Also - my trick has always been to add a vegetable to every meal you eat. No eating without including a vegetable. This bulks up the amount of food, while cutting back on unneccesary snacking, and alcoholic drinks.

Still no progress in a 3 weeks? Spend $200 and have a couple sessions with a nutritionist to help tailor something special for her. Or instead, if you can afford the cash, a trip to a health spa makes a good xmas gift. My mom and I try to go to Ojai (just south of santa barbara) every other mother's day. You excercise all day, and eat their yummy food for 1200-1500 calories a day. Plus its relaxing - but most importantly, its motivating.

timmhaan

no disrespect here, but is it possible she is exaggerating how hard she's working out? i have a few friends who just go through the motions at the gym and never see any results.


edit: the key here is lifestyle change. try to get her to think of this less as a short term issue and more as a permanent change. to me i view exercise the same as i do brushing my teeth or doing the dishes. it's not really an option anymore...just something i do everyday.

lin

If she went from sedentary to working out - the fat may be being replaced by muscle - which weighs more - but looks better.

Guest

I say it could be a combination of things. Among them is that women just lack muscle mass that men have (a really small percentage of testosterone compared to men). Add that to the fact that as we get older, our muscle mass declines, and with even less muscle mass, metabolism will also decline, which leads to an increase in weight. However, I don't think that 3 times a week of exercise and cutting out sodas is going to produce results either. She needs to do more.

I would definitely recommend a few things- first, have her physical and just rule out any thyroid definciencies that may result in a slower metabolism. I don't think it's that, but you just want to be on the safe side. Then you can also determine that she's truly in good health and able to start a good fitness plan.

Second, I would highly recommend seeing a registered dietitian. Some health plans pay for a dietitian, and if so, then double bonus for her. Have her find a dietitian that specifically has the BODYGEM or a comparable tool for testing your resting metabolic rate (RBR). Once they've determined that, you can sit down and put together a good eating plan based on how many calories she burns at rest.

Third, I would bump up her cardio. Three times a week will not cut it. I would ease her into 4 days, then get her into 5 days a week. If she's limited on time, she'll do 4 days of high intensity cardio for 45 minutes and 1 day of moderate intensity cardio for an hour (building to up to 1.5 hours as she gains more fitness). Give her 1- 2 days off. If she eventually gets up to 5 days a week, she can add a sixth day every now and then when she hits a plateau and needs to change up her routine to get over the hump. Also, she should add in some days where she does weight training. It doesn't have to be anything strenuous, and the likelihood she'll bulk up (so many women are always saying that, and it's SO NOT TRUE) is slim to none, but she'll get a spike with her metabolism as she gains more muscle, which demands more energy to maintain, which leads to more calories burned. She can add in 2 days of low weights, high reps, and high sets for full body.

Fourth, I would highly recommend a personal trainer for one or two sessions to get her started. It would help if she tells them her background and how she just wants to tone and not bulk, and she wants to ensure she's not losing muscle mass as she ages (which starts when women hit their early twenties and goes downhill, unless she takes the initiative to lift weights herself). Tell the trainer she wants a bodyfat analysis... a skinfold test would be best. I don't like the Bod Pod because as you gain more lean mass, it becomes less accurate, since it just measures displaced air and doesn't take into account how much muscle vs. fat you really have. I also don't like those bodyfat scales, since they can be thrown off by so many small things- ie: if you're fatter in the lower body vs the upper body, if you're retaining water, if you're dehydrated, etc. Then once she has that number, then she should get reanalyzed every 8- 10 weeks.

Finally, I would recommend cross training. Keep the body guessing so it has no time to adjust and adapt to your training. The body is very good at fighting to maintain a set weight, and it will do anything to ensure you maintain it. She can do lots of things to cross train- spin 2 days a week, take a cardio kickboxing (higher intensity) another day a week, and run for the fourth day. If she does a fifth day, she can circuit the machines- like 15 minutes on the elliptical, 15 minutes on the stationary, 15 minutes on the treadmill, and 15 minutes on the stairmaster. If she does this last option, she wants to go nonstop from one machine to the next. So many people make the mistake of lollygagging through their circuit, and in that time, the body cooled down from the workout, so that's no good.

Most importantly, she has to realize these are lifestyle changes, not some diet. Diets are temporary. That's why they fail. As soon as you go off the diet (or fad exercise, or whatever), the body goes back to it's good 'ole set point, and then to make sure it's got that energy (fat), it'll gain a few more pounds. That's why you see fat people gaining the weight back no matter how hard they try not to. It's those fad diets working against them. The best way to lose weight is to do it slowly, be sensible, and set long term goals. Tell her to give herself short term goals like feeling better and being able to pick up the speed on her treadmill run by .5 after running on the treadmill for a month. Or being able to increase the intensity of her cardio and be able to keep up. Those are short term goals. Long term goals I usually set to clothes. I have my fat clothes, my skinny clothes and my in between clothes. Aim for the in between clothes. Don't obsess over the skinny clothes- it'll come with time.

Tell her to give herself about a year or so to see significant changes. If she does, the weight will come off slowly, but permenantly.

I could write more but my battery is running low on my laptop. Good luck to her.

Koffee

DannoXYZ 

I think sillygirl & koffee's got it. She may just need to work out harder and more. Spinning classes are really easy to slack off in, zone out, and not have any idea what kind of a workout you really did (hence my HR inquiry). However, if she's out on the road with you and she's just did a 20-mile ride with you in 1-hour, there's no doubt she got in a good workout.

Sounds like she's at a plateau in no-mans-land of training where she's not doing both enough intensity and not enough volume to get any improvements. So she could use some strength-training in the gym and sprints on the bike at least once a week. Then add more aerobic endurance events somewhere. Maybe a 2-3 hour ride on weekends. This will be more beneficial than three 1-hour spin-classes.

How does she feel after her workouts? Is she wiped out after the spin-class and have to relax for hours afterwards?

overthere

Not to say this is what your wife is doing, but it's easy to 'treat' yourself to what seems like a healthy reward, like a fruit smoothie or a yogurt, and there are the 250 calories or more that she just worked off in spin class! My girlfriend is going through a weight issue. She stopped by my classroom one weekend, having been jogging with her husband. The problem was, they jogged to the local market, about a mile, *had breakfast*, then jogged back. I have a feeling she won't be seeing a difference...she started jogging because she wasn't seeing any results in her 3x a week spinning class and yoga.

It takes so little to gain weight back. For me, it could be a handful of raw nuts for dessert one week to gain back 3 pounds. I'm 46, and I have to be almost fanatical to keep my weight steady and not climb.

I don't doubt that 2 halloween treat sized Paydays just blew the 52 mile ride yesterday!

Guest

Ok, I got power in my laptop again.

I was also going to add that in order to gauge her intensity, she should also see if she can get some kind of max heart rate test or a lactate threshold test that correlates to heart rate. Then she should get a heart rate monitor and check her workouts. For times when she is doing the 45 minute workouts, she should aim for 75- 85% of her max heart rate, and for the longer workouts, she can aim for 70- 85% of her max heart rate. This will ensure she's on the ball all the time. I always say that working out without a heart rate monitor is like driving a car with no speedometer.

Koffee

yoda_chubaca

hello there! I'm the lady you guys are talking about (hehe)!
So here I am taking notes.
However let me tell you what I'm doing and you all can then comment:
I work out pretty much 5 times a week, 4 times spinning (tuesday, wednesday, thursday and saturday) and once yoga/pilates.
Now because I have bad knees I have replaced the wednesday spinning class with the Yoga/pilates class (that's just been since last week) however durring the spinning classes I have just been spinning at a lower resistance and spinning longer (ie I was there 2:30hrs on saturday).
I also try to get to the gym 30 to 50 min early tuesdays and thurdays so that I can weight train and do abs on top of the workout of the day.
Since I have figured out that working out alone isn't going to cut it (d'uh), I have also changed my diet (and no diet pills either...). So no more sodas, hamburgers and fries for me... Instead I now eat salads for lunch (chicken, tomatoes and balsamic vinegrette) and some sort of protein dinner (chicken, beans...since I get home after 8PM.).
I do not have snacks during the day, if I get hungry I drink water and chew gum.
Now as far as what I'm doing wrong, I must be missing something however I will get a heart rate monitor and keep you guys updated!
Thanks for the imput guys.

Guest

Sure. But spinning is pretty much a non-weight bearing activity, so it shouldn't bother the knees.

Definitely incorporate the heart rate monitor and see if working at a higher intensity helps you to drop the weight. If not, I highly suggest replacing that spinning class back into your schedule. You can always add in a pilates and yoga class on saturdays and cut short your saturday to 1.5- 2 hours so you can still get your yoga and pilates in on Saturdays.

If you're doing the 45 min spinning classes during the weekdays, you can do 15 min of abs after class and then you don't have to worry about doing anymore abs. That would leave you with 2- 30 minute full body weight training sessions. That is do-able (or should be).

Good luck!

Koffee

DannoXYZ 

Welcome to the forums yoda!

"Now because I have bad knees I have replaced the wednesday spinning class with the Yoga/pilates class (that's just been since last week) however durring the spinning classes I have just been spinning at a lower resistance and spinning longer (ie I was there 2:30hrs on saturday)."

What's the issue with the knees? We want to be really, really careful here. It's easy to mess up knees with cycling if the fit of the bike isn't just perfect. While it's a low-load workout, you can be susceptible to RSI-type injuries and the knees are the first to go. Make sure your position has been optimized with a FitKit so you know the various measurements that fit your body. Then make sure the spin bike is set up identically each time.

Depending upon your existing knee condition, there are various therapies available. There's been quite a lot of research showing that strength workouts with weights relieves arthritis pains. Similar results with osteoporosis conditions as well with weight/strength workouts providing more benefits than supplements.

Guest

Most definitely weights will help. When I first started weight training it was because I had such bad knee pain I could not bend my knees to kneel over and pick something off the floor. The pain was terrible- it was a stabbing, sharp pain through my kneecaps. I talked to some personal trainers at my gym, and they recommended a great program for me for training so I could strengthen the muscles around my knee. A few months into my weight training program and the pain was nearly gone, though I still had some bad creaking in my knees and they were popping. I added a lot more water into my everyday diet and increased my weights. Within 9 months, my knees were back to normal. I've never had problems since.

Koffee

Guest

P.S. I don't think most instructors are going to have anything even close to a fit kit, so she'll have to look for something a bit more realistic for bike set up with that spin bike.

Koffee

Al.canoe

You mention only exercise. The other part of the weight-loss equation is what one eats. In other words, she also has to reduce her calorie consumption while insuring good nutrition. The best way to do that is to slowly modify ones diet in both amount and quality to something that both satisfying and reasonably enjoyable so it can be adhered too as a part of a permanent lifestyle change.

Good references are the new 2005 USDA nutrition guide (80 pages, free down-load) and Chris Carmichael's Food for Fitness (pub 2004). The later is consistent with the former but is geared for the active person and is far more motivational as it provides the rationale for what constitutes a healthy, lower calorie diet while maximizing ones energy level.

Also, those who lose weight more slowly, apparently have a higher probability of keeping it off.

Al

sjjone

Carmichaels's food for fitness is good, but has to be adjusted. If I ate the number of calories he suggested, I'd be up to 200 lbs by the end of next month. Some women just have a rough time with weight. I ride 160 miles a week, plus 2 mt bike rides, and commuting 10 miles a day (total of roughly 220). I use fitday (which I hightly reccomend) to track EVERY mouthful of food (for added accuracy I weigh everything that can be weighed on a good kitchen scale). At 2000 calories, I maintain my weight, at 1600-1700 I lose almost 1/2 a lb a week. The only way I figured this out was by monitoring every calorie, and experimenting with eating less, and less, and less, until I saw a result. (and yes, I've had my thyroid tested-it's fine). If everything's fine medically, experimenting is cheaper than a dietician.

NoRacer

You may want to check out this forum too:

https://www.bodyrecomposition.com

They may have a few suggestions for you.

IMHO, the heart rate monitor will help to show you the intensity of your workouts. Compare it to your rides outside. Personally, I find it hard to maintain a decent heart rate spinning on a cycle trainer, but have no problem maintaining a high aerobic level outside.

DamianM

My girlfriend was jogging every day and wasn't losing any weight. Turned out she was pregnant

Al.canoe

[QUOTE=sjjone]Carmichaels's food for fitness is good, but has to be adjusted. If I ate the number of calories he suggested, I'd be up to 200 lbs by the end of next month. Some women just have a rough time with weight. I ride 160 miles a week, plus 2 mt bike rides, and commuting 10 miles a day (total of roughly 220). QUOTE]

I would ignore any recommendations from anywhere on calories. That has to be fine tuned to the individual. Carmichael was just giving examples.

I use a very simplistic, but motivational software (https://www.weightware.com/) to fine tune my calorie intake. It works, for me at least, because you get constant feedback. You can play with it for free for 30-days. I'm also hooked on their CycliStats (https://www.shastasoftware.com/CycliStats/index.htm).

What women need is more testosterone. And I say that only partially kidding. I'm wrapping up a one year Testosterone-blocking cancer treatment. The lack of testosterone kills one's energy level and reduces muscle mass. I also got blind sided with weight gain before I realized it (another reason for the software). Losing weight with no testosterone is much harder than otherwise. It's amazing how little food one really needs though.

Al

DannoXYZ 

"Humans don't need to eat earth-matter, all you need for nutrition is air and sunlight!" ... can't recall where I saw that....

jslopez

So we had a heart rate monitor on yoda today (my cs200) and the readings were strange.

The HR was consistent, not jumping or anything and after the workout I put it on again and it was fine.

But on Yoda, the readings seemed a bit high. She hit 186BPM as a high (and she had some effort left so it's not her max). She was consistently in the 160-170s and her average for the 45 mins was 148. I turned off the HRM and restarted several times but the results were the same.


Now maybe this is an apples to oranges comparison but I hit those numbers on extreme efforts and her heart rate seemed to go up real quickly?

Is this something to expect?

She'll be getting her own HRM tomorrow but input would be appreciated.

sjjone

She's a 25 yo female? I'm 22 and those numbers aren't far off mine (and I've been training fairly hard for 3+ years...heart rate is largely genetic-get readings for a few days and determine what her zones are and go from there. The best sign of fitness (HR monitor wise) is how fast the heart rate goes back down.

Guest

Heart rate is different for different people. Like Sjjone said, it will be genetic. If you really are concerned, find out if your club has a manner to test for heart rate and have her tested. How high the heart rate goes is not as much of a concern right now. How long did it take her to drop her heart rate after a hard effort? What's her ambient heart rate (heart rate while at rest)? What's her resting heart rate (heart rate upon waking up in the morning)? Those are the better questions to ask.

Koffee

NoRacer

Heart rate is dependent on the size of the heart (but, rate at rest can be influenced via training). Females tend to have smaller hearts, hence a faster heart rate then men.

In my humble opinion, until proven otherwise, use 186 as her max to calculate the training ranges for the different energy systems she wants to target. If, while training or racing, 186 BPM is exceeded, use the new high value as the MHR and re-calculate the training ranges accordingly.

Percent of MHR------BPM
60------------------112 (recovery level)
70------------------130
80------------------149 (approximately lactate threshold for her)
90------------------167 (no-mans land "grey zone")
100-----------------186 (effort can not be sustained longer than 6-10 minutes)
------
Supramaximal Efforts
100+----------------186 (sprinting / maximal efforts under 120 seconds)

With supramaximal efforts, one can go over 100% because of contribution from the glycolytic energy system, if the aerobic system has already been in use and intensity is maximal. From resting or low-aerobic levels, short duration anaerobic efforts are marked by OBLA (Onset of Blood Lactate Accumulation) if the effort is longer than 20 seconds.


.

jslopez

" How long did it take her to drop her heart rate after a hard effort?"

Meaning she's still on the bike but just soft pedaling?

"What's her ambient heart rate (heart rate while at rest)?"

So this is outside the workout and just sitting for several minutes then take HR?