Induray

Okay...stop this insanity..from now on everybody will drink beer for recovery. This ends all arguments

doctorSpoc

OK so we are agreed here... useless statistics.. my point was also to show that linking soy to the reduced overall cancer rates and rates of certain cancers in Japan was as rediculous and unfounded as linking milk consumption to reduced cancer rates in certain types of cancers in the west... my suppositions were purely tongue-in-cheek

doctorSpoc

you know, i had assumed that the choc milk i was drinking was 2% but it's actually 1%... and it tastes great! so great tasting choc milk (1%) actually has HALF THE TOTAL and basically the same amount of saturated fat (only 0.5 grams more) than soy milk

per 1Cup/250ml

2.5g/4%DV Fat, 1.5g/8%DV (just read this off the label)

doctorSpoc

For anyone who is still interested... i was doing some more reading on recovery nutrition and one very important component is that the recover drink/food have a high glycemic index... such that carbs get absorbed rapidly and cause a rapid high blood sugar level... resulting in your body upping the insulin level which in turn speeds up glycogen production. likely why milk is a terrible recovery drink but choc milk is/would be a much better one because of its high sugar content.. other choices would be bread, rice etc.. as well as a 4:1 carb to protein ratio as mentioned earlier which for what ever reason speeds up carb absorption, and likely aid in muscle repair and maintenance.

WarrenG

I would just like to point out that Anthony is from Australia where some people think vegemite tastes good, so, consider the source of the sour milk advocate. :-)

dankalf

hahaha....I'm not sure what you're eating if you're not eating agricultural products....but whew..this is funny!!!

CapeRoadie

Well, let's see... there is a lot of food out there not considered "agricultural", including venison, other game meats, fish, berries, nuts, fruits... none of these is considered (necessarily) "agricultural". Remember, many of us like to eat the "cave man" diet. Personally, I think dairy and wheat products suck big time. I'm much happier with a gluten-free, dairy-free diet with lots of water. I love water. Especially sparkling water, naturally carbonated from the ground. Open your mind and tell me how fish or blueberry is an "agricultural" product.

dankalf

Fish and blueberries are agricultural products if you buy them at a store (most fresh fish at my local grocery store is farmed anyway). As much as I would love to catch and eat my own fish and/or pick berries I don't really have the time for that and blueberries dont grow well in the canadian winter

CdCf

The reason for that could be just about anything, and is most likely a combination of many factors.
Do people who are not genetically Japanese, but have lived there all their lives, have a lower or higher incidence of cancer?

Is a main factor pollution? General diet (low in saturated fats, high in unsaturated fats from fish)?

You see, you can really only compare cancer rates and attribute them to a specific factor when all other factors are equal. To claim that milk has anything to do with it is just silly as it is now.

Herbert

I love chocolate milk and consider myself a connoisseur in that regard. I have at least 5 different chocolate milk powders at my house ranging from Milka, Nestle Quick and Kaba to some smaller brands.
:-)

Herbert
Litespeed

RocketsRedglare

whats wrong with a nice cold bottle beer?

CdCf

The alcohol?

SanDiegoSteve

Beer.

Bicycling mag ahad a good review of it a couple of years ago.

Cromulent

I'm not one to let a good pun go unacknowledged. So...

balto charlie

I drank a chocolate stout for a recovery ride. Emotional recovery
Now for you lactose intolerant folks: Can you drink beers made with lactose. Some stouts are made with this. I believe Guiness has lactose in it. Just curious.

Jarery

More support for chocolate milk vs sports drinks

https://www.webmd.com/content/article...src=RSS_PUBLIC

mx_599

i have...although i don't really like milk. i think i might have been getting my chocolate fix

'nother

I've been consulting with a nutritionist who recommends complex carbohydrates and protein at a 2:1 ratio with very little or no fat for optimal recovery.

While adding some protein powder to non-fat chocolate milk (cow or soy) could get the ratio right, the carbs are mostly simple sugars, not complex. So at least according to this model, chocolate milk is suboptimal for recovery. However: it sure does taste great, and I have had it from time to time as recovery drink/reward.

Personally, I'm a fan of beer, especially after long/grueling rides. The anesthetic effect of the alcohol on sore muscles is welcomed. I figure it's allowable to have suboptimal recovery from time to time for the sake of preserving mental health. If I were a Pro or something I'd worry a lot more but that seems pretty unlikely to happen so . . . bottoms up!

mx_599

what kind of recovery are you talking about. there is no shame in having instant simple sugar carbohydrate to begin the replenishing of muscle glycogen stores once again

WarrenG

There are bonafide studies showing the ratio of carbs to protein can be as high as 10:1. 4:1 still seems about right for the reasons below.

A ratio of 2:1 is probably too high because it's either not enough carbs to help your replace the glycogen asap, or it's too much protein to digest adequately. Also note that protein digestion produces ammonia and that will slow your muscle recovery. Protein is something you want to have around on a more or less continuous basis, somewhat different from carbs. So, frequent, small amounts will be best.

Recent studies show that you want the carbs right after exercise to be simple, NOT complex, because you want them to convert to glycogen rapidly and the little insulin surge from the simple carbs will also help get the carbs and protein where you want them (stored, into muscle). Remember too that it takes at least 3-4 grams of water to store one gram of carbs. A sports drink as soon as you're done exercising is best, then 15-30 minutes later you start with the carb and protein together at 4:1 or slightly higher.

nickw

Just for the record, the Swiss are close behind the Japanese for the longest life spans. These are the same people who have the highest dairy consumption (short of the Masi) yet have long productives life spans.

With that being said, there is a big difference between store bought milk and good Jersery cow free range RAW milk, the europeans use the RAW stuff.

I think even better than milk for recovery, try some good raw CREAM sometime. For hundreds of years it has been used to feed 'athletes' before/after a big event, it was one of the original recovery drinks.

'nother

I will see if my nutritionist will share sources on the studies she's used to develop this plan. Not that this makes the information any more reliable, but she does have a Ph. D. and is a cycling coach/consultant herself so I am at least marginally confident that she's not pulling it out of a dark place. Also this may have been custom-tailored advice for my specific needs. I'm just telling you the model. There's no one best way.

mx_599

PhD in what? and from an accredited university?

ho hum

What we have here is another thread that shows how eating and food will become the next religions of America. We'll have the Vegans, Vegetarians, Pescarians, Omnivores, Paleos, Neanderthins, South Beachers, Atkins and on and on and on....

I saw a funny bumper sticker the other day. It said, "If you are what you eat, then I'm fast, cheap and oily."

WarrenG

Better yet, show her my post and/or do some reading of your own on pubmed. There's lots of studies there about what I wrote. Your comments about complex carbs right after training is the exact opposite of what studies suggest. 2-3 hours before or after training is the time for complex carbs.

Note that the ratios I was describing are for the hours immediately after training. The 2:1 ratio that you mentioned may have been for other times.

Do some calculations... 30-40 grams of protein is about all a person can digest well and assimilate from one meal. With your 2:1 ratio that's ~60-80 grams of carbs, around 300 carb calories-not nearly as many carbs as you should be aiming at right after training for 90+ minutes.