Originally Posted by CapeRoadie

The study by Stager referenced in the Indiana newspaper reference you linked was funded by Dairy and Nutrition Council Inc., according to the Indiana University website. That makes any conclusions suspect. Further, one study does not a paradigm make. For example, a recent study showed no recovery benefit for massage after cycling (see https://bjsm.bmjjournals.com/cgi/cont...tract/38/2/173). I suppose we should simply throw out all the soigneurs right away? Could it be that 100 years of cycling tradition has it wrong? I don't think so.

Listen, there are many very respected physicians who think that bovine milk is simply bad news. Human breast milk is the best choice for humans. Baby cows drink cow's milk. After they grow up, they cease to drink it. The only reason we drink it as adults is because we have been subjected to a massive media campaign by the producers of milk. Perhaps in the days of famine and agriculture as the only means to survival, milk was a good idea. Not so today. The only survival milk is responsible for today is the survival of cardiac surgeons. On a gut (common sense) level, if cows and humans don't produce milk for adults, does it make sense that adults should drink it, especially to excess?

I will remain cautiously optimistic about Stager's as yet unpublished study. John Ivy and Bob Portman looked at recovery and found that WHEN nutrients are consumed is actually more important than WHAT is consumed. We should not give Joel Stager credit for something he played no role in discovering (i.e., nutrient timing). The researchers behind Endurox (Ivy, Portman) discovered that concept. Chocolate milk might be a viable option for many people out there, but many people are lactose intolerant, and the word is out as to whether the fat content of chocolate milk is an aid or a detriment to recovery in the first 15 minutes after exercise. Further, milk and other dairy products can be detrimental for many persons with varying diseases. I am also one of those who believes there is a milk-mucous connection, although no one has yet been able to prove it. The studies may be looking at the wrong populations. Bovine growth hormone is another real concern. Perhaps the best thing for us to look at would be Ben Cohen's (the Ben of Ben & Jerry's ice cream) cardiac history. It's not so good.

You are recommneding saturated fat as a good fat when you recomend milk. While I agree that Americans are confused about fat, recommending saturated fat by using milk may not be such a good idea. How about starting with recommendations for small amounts of omega-3 or omega-6 fats?

Like I said, cow's milk is for baby cows. They stop drinking it when they grow up. Maybe it's time you did too.

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Better yet, show her my post and/or do some reading of your own on pubmed. There's lots of studies there about what I wrote. Your comments about complex carbs right after training is the exact opposite of what studies suggest. 2-3 hours before or after training is the time for complex carbs.

Note that the ratios I was describing are for the hours immediately after training. The 2:1 ratio that you mentioned may have been for other times.

Do some calculations... 30-40 grams of protein is about all a person can digest well and assimilate from one meal. With your 2:1 ratio that's ~60-80 grams of carbs, around 300 carb calories-not nearly as many carbs as you should be aiming at right after training for 90+ minutes.

Originally Posted by CdCf

The reason for that could be just about anything, and is most likely a combination of many factors.
Do people who are not genetically Japanese, but have lived there all their lives, have a lower or higher incidence of cancer?

Is a main factor pollution? General diet (low in saturated fats, high in unsaturated fats from fish)?

You see, you can really only compare cancer rates and attribute them to a specific factor when all other factors are equal. To claim that milk has anything to do with it is just silly as it is now.

Originally Posted by 'nother

Her time-frame for this was within 30 minutes post-exercise. I'll run your info by her and see what she says. Also I should mention that her program is specifically for endurance training, which may also carry different needs. Not saying you're wrong . . . or that she's right . . . just repeating it.

Originally Posted by SandySwimmer

I wonder if sugar-free chocolate milk (such as those that use splenda) would work. I like the Swiss Miss version and try to avoid sugar, so I'm hoping.