Live Wire,

How did those first four frames go? Are they still around, or did some fatal flaw consign them to the scrapheap as part of the learning process? And you built jigless? Not that I know the slightest about what I'm doing, but that seems like it would be difficult.

You are right though...it depends. (Perfect fighter pilot answer, by the way.)

I know that building a frame in Yamaguchi's school will be nicer than most things I would produce the first time around; unless I took the time to practice on so much tubing that when I finally went to create an actual frame I was a well practiced individual.

It's a tough decision.

I may cross post this in Frameforum, which I joined the other day.