Originally Posted by
meanwhile
Based on past posts I find it impossible to believe that this guy is a professional scientist. Giving him the maximum possible benefit of a doubt maybe he's a lab tech or basement tinkerer who thinks that he deserves the title.
Pot? Kettle? Black?
Considering how wrong you are about your elementary physics
as well as other things you've said, I could certainly ask the same about you
Originally Posted by
meanwhile
This is silliness. Lustig's point is that fructose is like alcohol in that it has to take a metabolic path through the liver before it becomes useful glycogen, and that overworking the liver with either has similar consequences. In the sense that is important to Lustig's argument the pathways are irrefutably similar! He didn't say "The chemistry of metabolizing alcohol and fructose in the liver are the same!" but "Fructose and alcohol are both have to be processed by the liver in a way that other energy sources do not, and the over consumption of each has similar biological consequences. Thus you can no more equate consuming 3000cals of a day brown rice with consuming 3000calories of fructose than you can with consuming 3000cals of grain whisky. In each case there will be consequences!"
Since you've said that I'm to lazy to look up information, perhaps you could go look up some information on your own before attacking me. What is the end product of ethanol metabolism? If you are going to call some one stupid then you'd better know.
Ethanol does not end up as glycogen. 90% of the ethanol you consume is oxidized to acetic acid which then makes pyruvic acid which is eventually converted to lactic acid or may, after several steps, become glycogen. Fructose is converted to glycogen by an entirely different pathway with different steps and different end products. If you can't look it up for yourself, you can follow the link I posted earlier. That may be too hard for you but the information is there if you care to read it
Just because two processes occur in the liver, doesn't mean that both are bad. Ethanol, an intoxicant...or do you want to argue that point too
...is metabolized in the liver and is bad for the liver (as well as other parts of the body). Fructose isn't an intoxicant and is a chemical that is produced in fruits and vegetables. The fructose from an apple is identical to the fructose from corn or sucrose for that matter. Is that fructose bad for your liver?
And the liver does all kinds of other things
http://www.mamashealth.com/organs/liver.asp
The liver has many functions. Some of the functions are: to produce substances that break down fats, convert glucose to glycogen, produce urea (the main substance of urine), make certain amino acids (the building blocks of proteins), filter harmful substances from the blood (such as alcohol), storage of vitamins and minerals (vitamins A, D, K and B12) and maintain a proper level or glucose in the blood. The liver is also responsible for producing cholesterol. It produces about 80% of the cholesterol in your body.
Here's something else that occurs in the liver
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...cogenesis.html
Gluconeogenesis occurs mainly in the liver with a small amount also occurring in the cortex of the kidney. Very little gluconeogenesis occurs in the brain, skeletal muscles, heart muscles or other body tissue. In fact, these organs have a high demand for glucose. Therefore, gluconeogenesis is constantly occurring in the liver to maintain the glucose level in the blood to meet these demands.
Are all of those equally as bad as fructose and ethanol because they occur in the liver as well? Gluconeogenesis is the process of producing glucose from noncarbohydrate substances. Glycogenesis occurs mostly in the liver so does that make glucose bad as well? Whatcha gonna live on?
Consuming 3000 grams of brown rice or consuming 3000g of fructose a day won't kill you immediately. Yes there would be consequences but you won't fall over dead after consuming them. Consume 3000g of grain alcohol (95%) a day and you're going to be a hurt unit! 3000g of grain alcohol is equal to 158 18ml (22g) shots. Depending on the weight of the individual, 10 to 15 at one sitting would be enough to kill you.
Originally Posted by
meanwhile
To give you an idea of how lazy cycommute was in "analyzing" Lustig's work and concluding that because fructose ends as glycogen it doesn't matter that it passes through the liver on the way:-
Whether Lustig is right or wrong, it is this passage through the liver that is the key claim. The messed up insulin response triggers - according to Lustig - abnormal fat storage and by-passes the body's normal satiation triggers.
I.e. cycocommute has misunderstood literally
everything - except that the liver, alcohol, and fructose were mentioned!
Best overview I could find:
http://www.ucsf.edu/science-cafe/art...se-sugar-diet/
Cool. Let's quote from someone who doesn't seem to understand the chemistry of ethanol and fructose metabolism and how they are different to prove the point that ethanol and fructose metabolism are exactly the same and both are highly toxic poisons. That's classy
On the same page, Lustig also states
Maple syrup and honey are just glucose. While caloric and insulin generating (therefore obesogenic), they don’t have fructose to damage the liver and promote insulin resistance. So, although not perfect, they would be better than sucrose.
Yea, right
The main sugar in maple syrup is sucrose...68% of the mixture while the next highest constituent is water. The main sugar in honey is levulose...up to 44%. Know another name for levulose? Fructose! Lustig is blowing smoke out his wazoo! To put it impolitely, the man doesn't know ****!
As for meanwhile, well...he believes the good Dr. Lustig and that I can't look stuff up. Maybe he believes in the Easter Bunny too
I don't think he believes in SCIENCE!