AllenG, I liked the dropouts that Otto designed for his friend, they look very similar to what Calfee uses, at least in terms of the bolt adjustable angle. Been following this thread, kind of lurking, and the question that I have is what kind of drop outs are you guys using on your bamboo frames and how are you attaching them to the stays? It seems that most dropouts that I can readily find on the www are pre-made at a certain angle for the stays and not easily adjustable. I wold love to get my hands on some similar to what Calfee uses, or that Otto guy.