thanks again all. so i get it now. trucker really does equal buick. cross check equals jeep. basically i love solid, so for me both sound fun. and i dig my cantis too (pauls, lovely) so both frames/bikes sit ahead of the pacer for me. i still feel the (hypothetical) trucker love and appreciate getting a better sense of it (in the absence of real bikes to test ride where i live). the only minor quibble i have about the trucker is how i might feel being more upright and a dead feeling. hmm. on the dead feeling, a cool compromise might be the trucker with the 26inch wheels (on what'll prolly be a 58cm). that would give it some more pep, off the mark at least... and also, as per my on-one, i kinda dig a high bb, so CC wins there...but seems with either i can't go wrong... and will be happy either way... oh, maybe i am leaning CC's way...tomorrow i will change my mind!