Up Date on my Brooks B17 Special Saddle this time around has been good for me.No pain at all this time around I guess it really does help to get it set just right the height the tilt and front to back must be right on or you will have pain or I did on my first Brooks Saddle.Today was a little cool out side but I still enjoy my ride with my B17 Brooks Saddle.Just wish I had known this the first time.It would have save me some money oh well live and learn.And some Proofide goes a long way too.