Things I notice in C&V (cranky & vintage) vs. Road forum.
1) we use proper names, not the twitterfied, texting generation numeric values.
2) We don't yell at you (unless you're about to "Drew" a bike
3) The only people here we call 'Fred' are actually named Fred.
4) you can talk any combination of steel, carbon, brifters, shifters, 4,5 6 or even 11 speed and we're
okay with that.

I do know what you mean though when you say if you started posting here that your
bike choice would probably have been different. Sometimes I think that we (Bike Forums) should
point all newbie 'what bike should I get' questions here. We don't have to espouse the latest and
greatest in frame material or components and could probably save these guys a few hundred bucks
at least.

marty