Thanks for all the feedback. I ordered a pair of the Ponderosa shorts a week ago. Unfortunately they were out of stock so won't arrive until 6/11. Picked up a pair of Zoic shorts at the LBS. Really light weight outer material, and a removal spandex, padded liner. Not too baggy, and no bulky cargo pockets. Wore them for a TT race Sat, and for a 3 hour marathon race Sunday. They were great. I'm still learning to use clipless, and went down several times, but no damage to the shorts. Will try to report back when I get the Ponderosa shorts.