Thanks for the replies I think I am going to go test ride a kona Stinky and Norco manik on the weekend. I do allot of urban riding to, although, so the manik might feel better. But i love and trust Kona. A quick question... Does the like "standard" or "non delux" Kona stinky come in any other colours than the army green? I like it, but I love the dark tan brown on the stinky delux?