Originally Posted by
noglider
Yeah, I like Miyatas, with the Miyata name and others, such as Univega.
ColonelJLloyd, as far as I know, the geometry of several models was the same or very close: Super Course, Gran Sport, Competition, and International. All four, except the Super Course, was full 531, with butted main tubes. The Super Course has merely main tubes 531 straight gauge, with garden-variety carbon steel everywhere else. So shoot higher. It's just that the Super Course is more plentiful and cheaper.
And yeah, I have a Surly Cross Check. It's about as versatile as a Super Course. More, really. Very "neutral" feeling handling. Neither sluggish nor twitchy.
My Karate Monkey is a very odd duck...I'm not wild about the aesthetics or feel and am considering switching the parts on it to a more worthy frame. It weighs quite a bit, but that's largely the insanely heavy SRAM 9 IGH and generator hub.