I don't have a problem with BD lovefest threads. BD owners can wax poetic over their bikes all they want. The problem comes when they try and compare them to name brand bikes and call them equivalent bikes for less money. They are less money, but they are not equivalent. The fact that they are made in the same factory is a weak argument. Are they a good value for your money? Absolutely. Are they equivalent to a name brand bike? No way.