WEll this is most evident i saw with this bike shop called "Papa wheelies". They are a specialized dealer and i was looking at the road bikes, some had so few spokes in bizzare arrangements. I think one had 16, i felt the spokes figuring that they would be very tight to make up for so few but in fact it was loose! There was just so much deflection with minimal effort i couldnt believe it. And these looked like they were straight 15 guage