If it helps any of you I'm looking to stay around $4k which I figure gets me about as good as there is. The mixed reactions are a little confusing so I'm looking to clarify things before I proceed. I like the idea of getting a bike that's a little different but I don't have so much money that I willing to throw away $1000 just to be different. If there is a $2500 bike that is just as good as a $4000 bike I'm gonna go the cheaper route. I've heard a lot of comments similar to the ones posted here so I'm trying to make an educated decision. I know anything I get is going to ride better than what I have. I would like to get a bike that is going to last me a while. I'm the type of person who will save up for exactly what I want and will get something that last forever. I don't buy a car and then drive it for 2-3 years and get something new. I've never owned a car for less than 6.5 yrs. I currently ride around 100 miles a week sadly most of it is on a trainer because I have a 2 year old son and I won't go exercise until he goes to bed a night. I relish the weekends and being able to get on the road for a couple of hours. For what its worth I'm not sold on any frame material or manufacturer but I would like to have something that is not a me to bike like a middle of the road trek.