Originally Posted by
Peterpan1
I guess my question is Vik, "why". In other words I know you will be fine, There have been 20 spoke wheels built that held up to all that abuse and more. I've toured at a body weight of 275, and no probs. But that doesn't entirely answer "why".
The philosophical answer is the human engine powering a bicycle has finite output. If you pick the overly cautious option when deciding on your bike & parts you are by necessity limiting your performance. As an example I can build two 26" touring bikes [without doing anything wacky] that have a differential of ~30% in terms of the energy required to cover 100kms in a day with a significant amount of climbing.
So my response is make smart choices based on your needs and don't always pick the overly cautious option or at the very least be aware there is a downside associated with that choice.
Another way to look at it is if you don't need more why intentionally build a wheel that exceeds your needs?
Originally Posted by
Peterpan1
It's obvious if everyone who knows about this stuff from Jobst Brandt to Peter White says there is a problem, that there is a problem. Are we saying Peter and Jobst only have these problems because they don't know how to build wheels?
It's just not a problem that a given person is likely to encounter. Ot's only the thousandth person. But the balance to that is what is the pickup for the 4 spokes?
What's the problem? You need a wheel that can support you & your cargo over the terrain you ride. Select parts appropriate to your needs and build a properly tensioned wheel. If 32H provides what you need why go to 36H or 40H? Why use heavier rims than you need?
Originally Posted by
Peterpan1
The LHT is a bike that comes standard with 36 spoke wheels and an extra spoke carrier! I'm guessing you aren't concerned about the weight since you mention that the 4"wide tires on your Pugsley are no problem.
The LHT is a stock bike that has to work for a 100lbs girl and a 300lbs guy so they pick some median part choice that works most of the time. I suggest even focusing on the # of spokes misses out on the fact that proper tensioning is far more important and secondly would be the choice of rim and hub with # of spokes being last in importance.
I do indeed care a lot about weight. You'll note that my LHT has light yet strong racks, strong, but not crazy heavy duty wheels and tires. I don't obsess about every gram, but I care about having gear that's appropriate to my needs. I also care a lot about rolling resistance of my tires since it's a huge factor at touring speeds.
I wouldn't recommend a Pugsley with 4" tires for a cross the US road tour. In the context of the demands of the GDR the passive suspension of the Pugsley's tires earn their weight. BTW - my Pugsley wheels are also 32H, but they have very little dish.
Originally Posted by
Peterpan1
I'm not attacking. My stuff is far from consistent. About a year back I was splashing out on new wheels. I went for a 700c set with 40 spokes, and I would have done something similar or at least 36 spokes for my 26er. But I went for Rohloff and as a result got talked into the idea that even with the Rohloff rear hub, the front wouldn't be any more highly loaded, which isn't true, but anyway, I went 32 in front, knowing Thorn does it also. What changed? I went less spokes on my expedition tourer front wheel! frame. I'm selling.
I don't feel attacked - no worries. This is an interesting topic.
A 32H undished 26" wheel [assuming quality hub and strong rim] is lots for an expedition touring rig. Part of the paranoia about bike wheels is the poor structural design of a dished wheel. It's not a great way to build a wheel, but most rear wheels are dished due to the need for space for the cassette. As soon as you get rid of the dish [ie. a front wheel or an IGH like a Rohloff] the structure is so much more efficient and easy to build that you don't need nearly the same materials to get a strong wheel. Rohloff says a 32H symetrical wheel is as strong as a 40H dished wheel [assume quality of hub/rim is the same]. I don't have the math skills to prove that, but it sounds reasonable to me. My Surly Big Dummy rolls on 32H undished wheels - front is an XC MTB wheel and rear is a Rohloff/freeride MTB rim. I've carried 2 adult passengers, tour on rough dirt roads and hauled all manner of cargo without any issues. This is a far more demanding application than a typical touring bike.