Originally Posted by
lust4bikes
I appreciate your response as you are using wheels in a strategic fashion... What brands of aero wheels do you ride? Also the Bastongnes use a wider rim and although not "aero", they are supposed to be more aero assuming one uses a 23mm tire. But this wouldn't make them spin up fast... what do you account for their superiority? What other alloy clincher have you used in the past? Have you been tempted to upgrade to the Ardenes?
I don't know if this was meant for me but since I mention the Bastogne...
Aero wheels I ride now: HED (Stinger6 for racing, Jet6 front and Jet9 rear for training and some races)
Sometimes Specialized Trispoke (now HED3), aluminum rim version (the only version Specialized made).
Aero wheels I rode: DV46 clincher (sold to teammate), DV46 tubular (lent to teammate), Zipp 440, Zipp 340, Campy Vento (16 spoke version, I don't consider the G3 version aero), proto disk wheel rear, HED disk wheel rear, Mavic Cosmic Carbons (first gen), Spinergy RevX.
Alloy clinchers (non-aero) I rode (not comprehensive): Mavic G40, Open4CD, FiR EA60 EL45 Zenith, Sun Mistral err I forget the model names but box section and "aero", Campy Vento (G3) Eurus (steel spoke), Spinergy XAero, whatever SPinergy's non-aero XAero was.
Non-aero tubulars I rode: Mavic Heliums GP4 SSC, FiR Isidis Alkor some others, Ambrosio stuff, Campy Record Crono and others.
The Bastognes may be aero but I can't tell. I wanted a low spoke count wide rim for training. The Bastognes were the cheapest low spoke count wheelset from HED - the ones below it all have more spokes. I didn't consider the Ardennes at all. Nor did I consider the Flamme Rouge upgrade (a hub lightening thing) for any of my wheels. I bought all the current HED wheels in 2010 so I had a choice on what wheel to buy or not buy. I don't regret buying the Bastognes. I regret buying the Jet9. I would have bought a Stinger9 rear instead.
Spin up is a function of inertia - since hubs affect inertia very little, it has to do with rim and tire weight. At higher speeds it also has to do with spoke count. Aero wheels don't necessarily spin up faster - they just keep accelerating.
An FYI - one cannot tell how good bearings are by spinning a wheel while holding it in one's hands. That measures, among other things, bearing seal drag. Spinergy had excellent bearings when they started, but when Mavic came out with wheels that had poor bearing seals (and therefore "spun better"), Spinergy had to react. Against the wishes of their engineers they eliminated the bearing seals. Suddenly Spinergys were "fast".
A similar myth surrounds derailleur pulleys. If you get a cartridge bearing pulley and spin it with no load, it'll probably spin slowly. A bushing pulley should spin pretty well. A loose bearing pulley spins pretty well too, the nicest really (Campy). But put a load on it (i.e. chain under tension) and suddenly that cartridge bearing pulley works really, really well. Put 1000 miles on the drivetrain and that cartridge bearing pulley will now pull ahead of all of them. Even the loose bearing Campy pulley slows down when it's dirty.
So a "spin test" is not a test of mechanical advantage. It's a test of how the wheel feels when you spin it in your hand. Nothing more.
A properly adjusted round bearing surface hub is pretty equal to other properly adjusted round bearing surface hub. I include "round bearing surface" because the 105 loose bearing hubs (and lower) all had oval bearing races and could not be adjusted. Only the machined bearing surface hubs (Ultegra, Dura Ace) were smooth consistently. Since bearings make so little difference, I basically ignore them. If a bearing goes south I'll just replace it (since I have pretty much all cartridge bearings in hubs/BB).
Hub shells, other than weight and strength, also make no difference. I want a wide flange for lateral rigidity. The Mavic hub of yesteryear, while beautiful, made for a super flexy wheel. I imagine the same will hold true of narrow flanged hubs by anyone.
I'll post now edit later.
cdr