Originally Posted by
T-Mar
That's really interesting. It means:
1. We were being deceived about the 23" and 25" versions of all those top of the line, boom era, Japanese manufactured bicycles like the Fuji Finest and Newest, Nishiki Professional and Road Compe, Miyata MX-P and MX-R, Kabuki Diamond Road and Diamond Touring, Sekine SHX and SHT, Panasonic Professional and Touring Deluxe, Sekai 4000 and 5000, Centurion Professional, etc. Or were they all made from imported tubing?
2. The Japanese were incredibly slow to respond to the market. Most of these brands entered the US market in the very early in decade, circa 1971-1973, yet by the end of the decade, they had still not pressured Tange and Ishiwata into offering double butted CrMo tubesets for larger frames?
3. Katakura had a very poor marketing staff. Even if the tubing was only single butted it still would have allowed them to mention "butted" on the tubing decal. Marketers do not pass up opportunities like that.
I've just spoken to Mr Sugiyama on the phone about the tubing used but first off, a couple of disclaimers.
You have to realise that my conversations with him about this are in Japanese and while my conversational Japanese is very good a lot of this is technical and uses terms unfamiliar to me.
There is also the problem of the Japanese dating system being based on the year since the emperor of that time became emperor. Mr Sugiyama thinks in the Japanese system and when I first spoke to him and asked him if the frame was made in the early 80s he ummed and ahhed and said he thought it was earlier than then. I said, 'Maybe 1979?' and he said it was about then. Talking to him just now he said he thought the frame dated from around Showa 50 or a bit later, Showa 50 being 1975.
He says that when they were asked to make frames by US servicemen they were asked to make them with double-butted Unno tubing. I imagine you probably know this maker but it's the first time i've ever heard of them. At the time 100% of Keirin frames were made with it. The tubing was called Day2Day, or D2D2 or something. However, they didn't make tubing long enough.
Mr Sugiyama also repeated that at the time of this frame the longest db tubing available in Japan from Tange and Ishiwata was 600mm, so they decided to go with single butted, which was available. He also said that shortly after he made this frame the tube makers did start making longer tubing.
On the matter of long db tubing and its non-availability he tried to explain to me about bars inside the tubing and something about oil seals but I'm afraid it was completely beyond me.
When I next meet Mr Sugiyama I will talk to him about this again. It's much easier to understand him face to face. He also draws pictures for me when I don't get what he means.