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Old 06-04-05 | 09:03 AM
  #35  
froze
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 3
From: Fort Wayne, Indiana

Bikes: 84 Trek 660 Suntour Superbe; 87 Giant Rincon Shimano XT; 07 Mercian Vincitore Campy Veloce

This is going to cause a flame war so here it goes; because I love the smell of a flame war in the morning. First of all it is less expensive to weld a frame then it is to lug. Lugging a frame requires more labor hours then welding, I don't care how expensive a welded bike may be, it is still cheaper and faster to weld. I also believe that lug construction is stronger then welding-again I don't care how expensive the bike is. I also believe that the weight difference between lug and welded is at the most 1/4 of a pound, because with a welded tubset you have to have thicker butt ends for strength. Even aircraft use bonded lug construction in their AL frames even though a weld construction would be lighter; why? Because its a stronger connection and it allows for a greater degree of flex without failure.

But so much for my thoughts, instead read this website: http://www.rivbike.com/html/101_lugs.html
and: http://www.rivbike.com/html/101_framemanufacture.html;
and: http://www.worldclasscycles.com/JACKSON-HOME.htm

Grant Peterson along with Richard Sachs are the best bike builders in the world, they can make a bike anyway they want including welding, but they choose the lug method because it is the strongest. Bike Corperations, or manufactures, have gone to welding to save money-these companies are not stupid-their in the business to make a profit. Most mass producing companies have even gone to automated welding where no human hand is even involved in the welding process; why? to make money. And you can even take this a step further, most (if not all) companies mid to low end bikes are made by automated machines in China (some Taiwan); again why? for larger profits. But this is life in this world economy that is struggling to compete and stay afloat.

Now I am not saying that a expensive welded bike is cheap or that it will fail, because an expensive bike will be made far superior a cheap one and will probably last you a lifetime and be a bit lighter then a lugged bike. And the newer air hardened steel will actually become stronger at the joint when heat is applied from a welder; but this steel and welding process is fairly new in the scope of steel in general so the long term effect is not known-yet. But keep in mind that the new steel is also a thinner guage steel to compete in the weight class of TI and AL. Will this thinner steel fail faster then the older thicker guage stuff? We don't know yet. According to manufactures of this new steel the tensile strength is actually stronger then older stuff and supposely exceeds that of even TI, especially in the case of Reynolds 853. But even Reynolds 853 recognizes that there are different uses for this steel, some people want a racing light weight bike and others want a strong touring bike or tandem, so 853 comes in different thicknesses to support the weight that the frame may be subjected to; one series of 853 is so thin it has a rider weight limit of 165 pounds! I remember when Reynolds did the same thing with 531, their (P)ro or (C)ompetition series had a weight limit of 165 to 185 pounds, my (C)ompetition (S)port tubing doesn't have a weight limit but was still a racing frame and was the 2nd lightest frameset; my LBS at the time recommended the CS over the other because of durability issues the P or C had. Whereas their (T)ouring series was their heaviest and thus thickest. All in all Reynolds 531 had at least 7 different specifications.

Truth be known, personally I just don't like the look of welds vs lugs; I think lugs have a artistic attractive look and don't have that industrial look that so prevalent in todays society. So yes, I AM BIAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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