Taras0000 wrote:
"Do you want a craftsman that's been doing it for years or some guy that works in a frame factory?"
How does one tell the difference?
Don't the Nagasawa and Gan Well Pro artisans work in a frame factory?
Both Bob Jackson and Mercian stress that one man builds each frame, and their craftsmen free-hand braze, which means each tube gets brazed in place singly and allowed to cool before brazing a new tube; as opposed to putting all the tubes in a jig at the same time and brazing them.
http://www.merciancycles.co.uk/craft.asp
http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/factory.php
Reading the description of the fabricating process on both sites sounds and looks very much like the process Jon Kendziera shows in the construction photo-essay on his site, except Mercian open-forge brazes as opposed to torch-brazing:
http://jonnycycles.com/
Mercian, Bob Jackson and Jon Kendziera will make a custom frame to fit me and my riding style.
Mercian and Bob Jackson will do this, delivered, for about $1000.
I think Jon Kendziera costs a little more.
What would a custom Gan Well Pro or Nagasawa cost, delivered, and would I feel the difference?
I don't ask the above as a challenge.
I've never ridden a high quality lugged steel frame.
Perhaps no one on this forum has, either.
But maybe someone has, and I'd like to hear about it.
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From the Bob Jackson site:
"Frames can be either Jig built or Free built. Jig built is best used for mass producing low cost frames, as it is the quickest way to produce a high volume in a short space of time. When built in a jig all the tube joins are done in one go and as the tubes are heated they expand, contracting when cooling down. Because this happens at different rates & each tube is clamped in a fixed position the frame becomes stressed & out of line. Once built the frame is then substantially tracked straight (a trade term for bent back in line). As a result a great deal of the latent strength & springiness of the tubing is lost forever.
"At Bob Jackson Cycles we free build our frames for the following reasons: When building free a great deal of skill is required due to the fact that the frame is held at one place at a time, with guides allowing the tube being joined to expand along its length, whilst staying perfectly in line. Each join is then allowed to cool thoroughly so as to ensure there is no stress on the frame, hence the term “No tension building”. Each join is done separately, from mitreing, to brazing, to cleaning & polishing, resulting in a frame that requires minimal or no tracking and uses the best qualities of the tubing, giving it that magical ride quality that only comes from a top quality steel frame.
"All steel tubes deteriorate if not heated correctly by between 5 & 15% dependant on the mix of metals in the tubeset. Savings of approximately 200F in temperature can be achieved by using silver braze rather than brass, this however is not cheap, silver braze costs 6 to 7 times more than brass.
"The way the heat is applied directly affects the frame strength and its durability. Sudden or very quick changes such as when building quickly or welding creates a sudden change in the crystal structure of the metal, leading to a rapid change in strength of the tubing & increasing the need for blow holes to allow gasses to escape from the frame. Blow holes may allow gasses out but also allow water in hence all Bob Jackson frames are built without blow holes & to ensure we can honour our 5 Year Guarantee all frames are built under no time or cost constraints."
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Should I believe the above?
The Mercian site says just about the same thing.