Originally Posted by
RobertHurst
Learn what?
That it's easy to run lights safely when on a bike?
That safety in traffic does not depend on following traffic rules?
That even scofflaw cyclists are probably more likely to get hit under a green light than a red one?
These are the things that adult cyclists learn through actual experience, to the frustration of those who hope for just desserts.
Learn, what? That maybe it is illegal and if you want more respect a little thing you could do is follow the rules motorist has to? They get ticketed for running a light and you think you should get away with it? Bull crap! You should get just as high of a ticket as motorist. Take the laws away while your at it, go ahead, ask your community how they would feel about removing stop lights/signs from their community because traffic laws do not guarantee any form of safety! Again, bull crap! Does having a stop light/sign prevent people from running them? Absolutely, NOT! We have to have order as someone as stated earlier.
Originally Posted by
RobertHurst
It is possible to run lights and stop signs on a regular basis without ever violating any other road user's right-of-way.
Of course it is possible. I never once said it wasn't
possible to run lights/stop signs on a regular basis without getting hurt. I did not say that once. I know you could do it all day every day and possibly not get hit but that doesn't mean you never will. It also doesn't make it right. What if your light is green and a motorist from the other side decides he wants to go ahead and turn right to get right in front of you? He has time, he can safely do it, there is a no turn on red sign but he doesn't care. He knows he can safely do it without
hitting you or anyone else. When he whips right in front of you, or someone else (does it matter if it is you it happened to?), and causes the person on the bike to have to grip his brakes very hard to stop and maybe force him/her to the shoulder and almost hit a parked car? I think this would upset you, and, just as a reminder, it would be
against the law.
Originally Posted by
RobertHurst
Maybe they are the ones who should be educating you. Ever think of that.
Not once.
Originally Posted by RobertHurst
For instance I know a guy who has been a messenger for 26 years. In that time he has run something like, I don't know, seven-hundred thousand red lights. He has never experienced any sort of incident resulting from running a light or stop sign. Not one. In fact in that time, over 30,000 hours in traffic, he has suffered only one collision, when clipped by a door of a double-parked truck (and for which of course he blames himself). If anybody knows of a better safety record anywhere, 1 non-injury collision in 30,000-plus hours and many hundreds of thousands of miles over 26 years of daily cycling in heavy traffic, I'd love to hear about it. He is quite simply the most careful cyclist I have ever seen or heard about, and no, he doesn't wait around for red lights to turn green.
I call that luck and not skill. Skill has nothing to do with it and skill most certainly has nothing to do with breaking the law. Even the most educated in the world (apparently not that educated if you ask me and others) can break laws without getting hurt or hurting someone else. Has nothing to do with skill, my friend. We are talking about the law here. What makes you think you or your friend has the right to break the law and get away with it but complain and demand action when motorist do it? Sounds like self righteous personal ideologies to me that will not work in the real world but good luck trying to convince the judge you ran that light because you wanted 15 second of no cars on your left because it is safer! Get off the road if you are that scared or leave earlier so you don't have to rush!
Originally Posted by RobertHurst
Now imagine some duddly do-right chasing him down to "educate" him on proper bike safety, just because they saw him run a light. Absurd.
I'm not going to chase anyone. I never said I would chase anyone. If I have the opportunity to do it safely I will do so in a respectful way and most times I get positive responses.
Originally Posted by RobertHurst
If you don't like it when cyclists run lights, fine. Just don't use safety as an excuse to harass strangers who may have a lot more experience on the bike than you do.
I think it is sad you think correcting a stranger on the street is considered harassment. Not only safety a concern but also the image of cyclist and laws are important. Safety is very important but I realize I cannot stand at every corner and correct everyone who I think is going to hurt themselves. This discussion is about breaking the law and just because one person chooses to wear a helmet and the other doesn't does not mean I will scold the one without a helmet about wearing one. Yes, I do believe helmets are beneficial but that is a personal choice and at the moment it is not required in the City of Chicago, Illinois or a Federal Law so I have no qualms about keeping that to myself. That is their choice but running a light/stop sign is not a choice. It is the law and it is in place to protect the greater population... not one single persons personal opinion.
Originally Posted by
I-Like-To-Bike
Exactly wrong. I am saying "why are YOU doing something" that is none of your dang business? Robert Hurst pointed out in his posts, your "safety" scoldings are not about safety at all, but just ego driven lectures on strict compliance with the rules, regardless if they are applicable, helpful or safe.
I disagree and will continue to disagree with you. I do wonder though, why so many quick to defend breaking the law? Why do you think it is acceptable for you to break the law but others cannot? What could possibly be right about this? Oh, I forgot, running a red light gives me 10-15 seconds without a car next to me and allows me to feel safe and cuddly! Come on, give me a break! We all have to worry about safety, not just you. If you are so far behind in schedule for the day you are running a red light or blasting through a stop sign without even slowing down you need a PDA or something to help remind you and be more responsible. If you are scared to right next to cars after a red light maybe you shouldn't even ride on the road at all because eventually you are going to be next to a car.
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Your admission of "my bad" applies to all the times you mouth off at strangers on the street with your anal strict compliance "safety lectures. Other cyclists do not necessarily share your "opinions" and may not recognize the Good Samaritan that you imagine you are.
My saying "my bad" does not admit to any guilt other than the sidetrack of the conversation.
Originally Posted by
Leebo
Uptown Joe, ever had the "pleasure" of biking or driving in Boston? I did not say I always run lights or stop signs, I ride what's safest for me. If you are walking up to a red light and there are no cars, do you wait for a green light? Safest means sometimes taking the lane and not passing stop cars on the right. Drivers around here are usually JAM's. You really have to have a lot of situational awareness. At one intersection, I dismount and walk in the cross walk with bike, safest in that intersection. I signal always, use lights always, use my bell and dress to be seen. I do filter when needed, cars around here tend not to signal. At one intersection, I filter to the front and wait for the cross traffic stops on their red. I then start to cross before my light turns green( 1-2 ) seconds. No t-bones, no red light running cars, no right hooks, I'm the only one in the intersection at that time, safest for me. I have been rear ended in my car 4 times in Boston, welcome to my world. Don't preach till you have rode a mile on my tires.
I can guarantee you my world is as dangerous as yours in Boston if not more dangerous. A lot more people for one and a much larger city for two. Breaking the law has nothing to do with where you live. It is against the law and you should be ticketed and I hope law enforcement pick up on it and start ticket people and send a message that you should abide by the law like the rest.