You can get Forte Titans even cheaper and for the money those wheels have given many riders some happy miles. For me it was worth it for handbuilts ( A23, WI hubs, Dt comp 28/24) because I wanted a specific spoke number, type and lacing and I wanted a non-aluminum free hub body. If I hadn't gotten what I did I would have gone for the Easton Circuits that are on ebay for $300. I also wanted to try the wide rims and short of a pre built HED this was the cheapest way in. But for standard light weight clincher rims Kinlins seem to keep most people happy.