Originally Posted by hamish5178

Most all of the bikes I see do have that square geo, or they have longer top-tubes (Leader, Dodici). If you want to have zero drop you don't want a track bike. Get a Rivendell or a cruiser or a hybrid, or just a bunch of spacers. btw, you're getting top-tube and head-tube confused. Top tube length also isn't the only thing that determines your drop. For example, my Mash has a 590mm ST and a 550MM TT. Add in a short head tube and you have more drop and the forward sloping geo. If the head tube was longer you could have zero drop and the top-tube would be even shorter.