here's the website for the retul fit. www.retul.com I'm just going to do the advanced fit. Don't want to spend $250 on a bike fitting

yeah I did everything the internet said about seat height and knee bend.

@Rdinnmurrary

For the most part my cadence is about 85, except when I'm relaxing. Every ride I average over 85 cadence so I don't think that is the problem.

About the cleat position. I think that's probably a cause of the pain in the knees.

I guess that's why I'm going to get fitted

thank to you two for your input.