thanks old bodcat, that was a really thorough and thoughtful response, i appreciate it. im going to go back and measure the stem and ride the bike around for a bit to see how it feels, i really really like it... i hope i can make it work. if it ends up being too small i can always sell it, i think im getting a good deal on it. im also not a professional racer or any kind of racer really, but i do ride my bike pretty hard and often. right now im on a 58/56 track bike and it seems like a good fit, i also know that track frames are supposed to be a bit smaller then the road frame... so i guess it would be strange if i had the opposite. i just really love this bike, maybe a 13 cm stem will compensate for the shorter top tube.... we'll see. when i stood over it, it seemed the same as my track frame though the track frame is 1 cm taller, it just felt right, i guess i need to meddle around with the other adjustable parts and make my decision then. thanks for your input!