thanks for the excellent advice. I think Grumpy and creakyknees are spot on. I'm going to start focusing more and pay attention. Most of the knee pain occurs on the trainer when watching tv. On the road I don't notice as much. I also think the advice of "getting out of your own way" applies. I often find myself focusing on different parts of the stroke rather then the full stroke itself (if that makes sense). Do you guys think one legged pedaling on the trainer would help? Thanks again.