Thanks staehpj1 I think from what you are saying is correct and I will go with a lighter pannier, one of the problems I have with my panniers is I need to use a waterproof cover for them, when they get wet they are two time heaver, they are called Dirt Monkey and are not made anymore,
another thing someone said eariler to lose the front two panniers, so I think this is the way I will go, two back panniers, tent and sleeping pad on the rack, when I get sorted I will post picture