Yes they do. In both categories. And Sinyard has a Cannondale fetish to the point of emailing employees (engineers specifically) about quitting Cannondale and coming to work for Specialized. Cannondale ran a great ad in the trades with a copy of the email. It really blew up in Specialized's face.

What cracks me is the Sworks line. Essentially it's their pro frame. Like an EVO, or a Madone 6, or a Giant TCR Advanced SL. Ever compare pricing between SWorks and the rest that I mentioned. And people pay it.

Oh well.

I will say this...in am my past employment, the one real constant was that anything you did while "on the clock" or "under the employ" of the comapny paying you meant that material was owned by said company. I am getting the impression that Specialized is saying that these guys were working on this bike while working at Specialized (nights, weekends, etc.) and given the turnaround time for production and knowing a little bit about the life of a bike design, I'd tend to agree. I did not read every single post on this, but I spotted some comments alluding to the fact that the designers virtually admitted such. If that's the case, there's little recourse for them. If they were designing a bike while employed at Specialized, even if it was at the kitchen table at midnight, it's a Specialized bike, given what I have been told over the years.

Given all this, I'd still never have them in a shop I owned. And a couple of people have told me that if you work there and quit, don't expect a "goodbye lunch" or anyone wishing you the best. But from the reading I've done and the people I've talked to, that's Sinyard's style.