Originally Posted by BMXTRIX
If KHE would offer their bikes without that headset it would be a different story, but those headsets completely kill the entire deal. I have spoken with more than a dozen riders who have owned KHE bikes and every single one (every one!) has had issues with the headset and for those who have run rear brakes the detangler is nothing but a nightmare to work on with brake cables breaking frequently and taking far to long to change.
Are you going to walk into a bike shop and say "I need a 2.5" headset please." and actually expect a response other than "Huh?".
The Signal gives people chrome plated rims which provide superior braking.
A basic DK freecoaster which I haven't heard major complaints about.
Straightforward decent frame geometry and design - no crazy non-standard stuff
Good aluminum pegs x 4
Nice tight small gearing
Really, it is an overall design winner for the entry level rider and since the frame is steel you can just go ride some light street with no problem - just avoid grinds with those aluminum pegs (get cheap steel ones if you want).
Heck, I ride some light street on my Ares Choise frame which is aluminum with no problems. Did on my Show too... before it cracked in 5 places in one day.
KHE just doesn't give you the same stuff that DK does, with chrome plated rims being the single biggest thing. Look at almost any pro rider out there who is running brakes... chrome rims are an absolute requirement. In flatland even moreso.
The better items (perhaps) on the KHE would be the stem and bars.
The better parts on the Signal: Frame and rims
Much easier to upgrade stem and bars than get a new frame and new wheelset.
So the integrated headset/detangler is garbage. That's much easier to respect than "this bike looks like ass and this one doesn't." We move on from there. To KHE's credit I *was* able to find plenty of documentation, technical reference and detailed exploded views when I first started hearing about these things like a year ago, and parts were easy to come by, they're just not stocked in-house. I didn't really *care* at the time 'cause we'd get all of maybe 2 vaguely flatland-related questions a year in that shop and we sure as hell didn't see any reason to dig too deep into it when we got a display case full of G3s and GTX-Rs in the store and not a KHE frame in sight.
For the beginning flatlander I'd lean towards the hybrid style street/flat geometry myself for the versatility (that's the way I did it myself), never really argued that point. And while you're not LOCKING yourself into riding strictly flat with 18.75" worth of top tube, 76 degree head angle and 13.2" rear, it's certainly tricky keeping the bike under control in the air or on a sketchy landing. When my bikes split in two I was without a street bike for a couple months and rode the Quamen exclusively, street, flat, park, vert. It can be done, but I was happy when I was back on a longer bike and not so afraid I was gonna dive over the bars every time I dropped back in.
I'll be the first to say it looks a little weird, too...here's what 6'1" on a 19" flatland bike (steel half-knurled pegs, of course) looks like grinding backwards atop a 6' mini at Rhoades. You be the judge.
EDIT: If my feet look close together it's 'cause they are. 165mm on the arms, yessir. =)