I have two of the Velo Orange #6's, the Brooks Swallow knock offs. The black one seems much stiffer initially than the honey so there is some variation in the hides. I've been using them on the trainer all winter so they're broken in for spring. Comfort isn't bad but i can't imagine them working well for larger or heavier people. The #1's may not cost much less than a Brooks B17 but the #6 is about two and a half times less then i've seen Swallows selling for.