Hey Frogbutter,

Good find! Please don't look at the following paragraph as criticism...just a warning. The topic of Libertas has been well spoken on the CR list as well but, just a little info that i know.

Word of caution on the Libertas bicycle. They were a product of paris sport?, correct me if i am wrong guys. But that was the Frayse's business, as in mike frayse. They imported 'european" model bicycles. They imported Libertas, Flying Dutchman, and Aquila (not to be mistaken for Aquilla). These frames were made in South America. The frames on some were very well made with nice brazing and all. Why they claimed Euro...probably just to make it sound better but in all, i would have more respect if they stated up front the truth. Funny part is, they were supposedly made in the Luxembelgiumetc regions. The Aquila was stated to be Italian. My understanding from some framebuilders in Poland that i know, the Aquila were actually made in the Flemish style...Belgium. I guess it shows just how far a tale will be spun if they think more sales would come from the story. I picked up a batch of Libertas framesets for $30 each years ago and built them up into inexpensive fixies. Jack Van Gent was the seller at $30 each and he was the source of much of the history of origins of the frames. They were well made and made for some fun bicycles. I set them up as cheap fixies and sourced them out years ago at Trexlertown for trainers to various people. But i can tell you they were labeled 531 and that was just a flat fib. They def were not 531. It would surprise me greatly to hear if i was wrong, and i hope for this fluke that i am wrong. Who knows, maybe in that batch a tubing set about in S.A., there were a few 531 and someone used them. There may have been a time where the Libertas frames were Belgian related but i know the bulk in the states originated from south of the border. I have never come across a Belgian made Libertas. Maybe Jack Van Gent's may be the only Belgium connection, in his name.

Walter