wounderful wounderful replys very helpful thank you to you all keep the insites coming Also i belive on surlys web site i belive there are the brazons on the fork for the rack on the CC photo the only ones missing are the third waterbottle mounts am i wrong ? I just want a good bike i can 90% commute on and when the time arises do some centuries, roundos, normal rides and hopefuly in the future some touring !! I am doing all the searching and asking i can do untill the end of this year to assure i will be happy with what i choose i know the final decesion is mine and only i can decide but if i can have some insite from those who have had the bikes i would enjoy the reviews reviews are great!!
Other bikes i am interested in are te ALLCITY SPACE HORSE and the MASI CX and CX UNO

For those interested I have 2 routine commutes to school 10mi round with hills and to work 30 mi round going north so some incline at points total a week 150 wthout random errands