Hi everybody,

I am contemplating going with a hardtail MTB bicycle for touring. The idea being that a suspension fork would be easier on the hands, elbows and back than a hard fork. I'd really wish to be able to tour on gravel roads, alongside rivers and canals. I find it more fun than asphalt, that will still be a major part of the road I'll ride (will obviously depend where I go!). The idea is to do short tours, 1 to 3 weeks, in France and neighboring countries (would include some eastern europe countries also). I live in France.

I do randonneuring (and commuting), and find it frustrating not to be able to stop at the end of the day and go further. Touring seems exhilarating and I can't wait to leave (would love to go next month, but might be in 2 months, depends on when the insurance gives me the money for my last bike that got crashed by a car... have no job anymore, anyway).

I did about 80km straight of gravel road a couple weeks ago on a good old fully rigid steel Marin MTB, and my left elbow didn't thank me for that (it still hurts!). My bike is a tad too wide for me, so that might have not helped, I think, but... I have bar ends on the straight bars, I ride on them whenever I can (feels better) and riding on the straight bars would have been masochistic IMO.

Being on a budget, that would leave me with getting a new On-One Inbred frame (for 170€), an old used Marin frame a size shorter (same price, but they are beautiful frames, most of them made out of Tange chromoly...), or any other "budget" alternatives you may think (don't hesitate to suggest). They would be assembled with an old Magura Odur (damn expensive) or old Fox Vanilla fork. They would cost me 250€ max. Not that easy to find the good old ones (V-brake bosses and steel coil, not air). Would need to check if newer Inbred do accept V-brakes, and check their rackmount systems. Marin frames have sturdy rackmount eyelets.

For the same price, I could get a Surly LHT frameset, and that might be a better option than touring with a suspension fork... Or might not? I find the LHT damn pricey for a very "basic" frame, but at least it was designed to do touring and that is quite a merit.

These are the points that leave me hesitating:

- Suspension forks don't allow to use lowrider panniers, and putting the load higher would affect handling more. I'm very concerned about that. I'd use the Tubus swing to put the load on the "frame", as loading the moving mass (like with OMM racks) might actually drastically reduce the usefullness of the suspension! (And the Odur doesn't works with Tubus Swing, so that leaves me with the Fox Vanilla or the Fox Vanilla. No big deal, though, it's cheaper). So it all comes down to handling. Does a suspension fork with load on a Tubus Swing handles well? Better/worse than a rigid fork with lowriders? What about control? I like smooth and slow steering. Bars wobble and oscillation is my biggest fear - I once tried to haul 15 lbs of liquid degreaser on handlebars mounted panniers and couldn't ride it half a mile. Needed a lot of force to turn the bars left, then the inertia would try to throw it fully left, so you fight toward the right to put it back, then it runs full tilt right... Drove me mad).

- Even with rear rack mounts, MTBs might not be as well designed for loaded touring. My current Marin has an ultra stiff front triangle (triangular ovalized oversized chromoly... not compliant by any stretch of the mind!) but the rear triangle is rather supple, which makes sense for MTB use but scares me a little about control with an heavy load (tail wag?). Never tried loading it, though. Is the Inbred's rear triangle stiff enough? What the general experience on it? How using "setback" racks affects handling and stability? Tail wag scares me as much as bars wobble!

- Top tube length. My Marin definitely has a loong top tube, as do all (or most) Marins. Gary Fisher geometry. So does the Inbred. To fit me, I'll need a smaller bike. I'm contemplating using "cross" drop bars as I found I don't like horizontal positions - so butterfly bars might not be the best, as they offer only one "vertical" position. Drop bars offer 2/3, and as I would not use the drops on traditionnal drops (bad back), cross drops would offer me a so/so vertical position on the front curves, one on the hoods, and one on the drops, which sounds nice. So I'd need an even slightly smaller frame to compensate for the big virtual "stem" drop bars represent, and some steerer spacers to allow room for the drop bars and put them to the desired height (which is level with saddle) without interferring with the top tube.

Gary fisher geometries (Marin, Inbred...) use very slack tube angles meant to be used with short stems for nimbler handling (as 68/70° top tube is damn slack). Marin use the same geometry, but longer stems. Strangely, it still feels very responsive - more than I'd actually like on tour. Might have to do with the high rake forks that might reduce the overal trail to a low one, hence reactive handling. So might be tamed with a suspension fork, which probably will have less rake, hence higher trail for the same frame. The geometry of drop handlebars (or, don't discard them too fast, butterfly bars) equate to long stems, even with short stems, so I'm wondering how the steering would react. What is your experience of drop, cross and butterfly bars on Gary Fisher type geometries?

Thank you,
Nicolas