the initial hope was to get apex/105 for as cheap as possible. I've never had any interest in ultegra/force. And yes, it does look like a slippery slope. This new, impressionable bicycle mind has read just about every argument regarding cost/benefit of the various gradations of groupsets. Some of them put tiagra and 105 in two different categories between recreation and racing, while others view the current tiagra just as good as 105 from 2 years ago, due to the new 10 speed tiagra, and the apparent similarity between the new tiagra 4600 and the old 105 5600. If it's just a gearing issue, 9 speed is good enough, considering they'll probably be cheaper to replace anyway, and upgrading to 10 spd is irrelevant to me at the point. But if 105 is just overall better than tiagra in every aspect, then I'll settle for 105, and not worry about upgrading for a long, long time. Then, of course, there is apex, which 'rivals' 105 in quality and wipes the floor in terms of cost/benefit, or at least from what I've read. I'm probably thinking waaay too much about this, but that's just the way I am, take it or leave it

since I don't need the bike, I'll probably wait til november/december to make my move.