Ah this is where we get into apples vs oranges because I include my tubes and tools as part of my gear weight because they are carried in my saddlebag. However, like you I don't count water bottles in my gear weigh because they are always on the bike......I think this is a good argument for including everything in an overall weight. Bike, gear and clothes worn, after all that's what we are moving from point A to point B. If I was 30lbs lighter I think I's also argue for including the weight of the rider. But that would lead to segregation of the portly from UL touring, do we really want that?