Well, that's what I have for a photo--there will never be any more information than that. In both cases, the bikes just happened to show up in the background of photos taken (by someone else, not me) for another reason. Agreed, the saddle--whatever it is--certainly might not be original. I don't really expect anyone to come up with anything more than a wild-ass guess as to what we might be looking it. A basically pointless exercise, I admit, but this is C & V, right? Isn't that what we do best?