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Old 10-05-12 | 02:40 AM
  #21  
MassiveD
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by Syscrush
My questions:
  1. Are there full-time frame builders in Toronto that I'm not aware of? I don't see any since Mariposa closed.
  2. Why are there so few builders in Toronto? Does it all come down to high rent and taxes?
  3. Is it plausible to think that someone with my background and skills could make a go of it in a one-man operation like I describe?
  4. Do frame builders have to carry any specific liability insurance?
  5. What do you see as the pros and cons of taking this route? Here's how it looks to me:

Hard to answer these in place due to the formating.

So here goes, you can figure out what numbers they apply to.

1)I don't know that maripose was full time. They were a bike shop, and one of their products was frames. The frames were not all made by Barry. I drove by there once, and there were some young guys wielding the torch. Perfectly rational approach, but not a Sachsian enterprise. Urbane has an inhouse builder, but I have never heard of any of the bikes. But I have seen them working on proposals.

2) It does come down to high rent and taxes in part, though these days there would probably by issues about that kind of business in a lot of retail like places. There are some very nasty things happening in a frame shop that were probably OK in the Sixties but might be hard to justify. But as others have said, the gentleman builder model makes the money issues less a big deal. However, for others it is tough.

3) Possible but not likely you would make a go of it. As a business you have to make sales, so the main issue is how do you get your frames in front of people and get them to buy. Some people can sell a hundred frames in the first week of their going into business. Other people can't sell one. As Gerry McCaughy said to me, he runs one of those banks, they have no idea how to choose a person who will become a successful account executive, and those who do, do it their own way, there is no one way. You either are or you aren't. Since custom bike building at the highest artisinal level is barely a business that makes it harder. Many of the great builders, were not one man bands.

4) I don't think you have to carry insurance in Canada. There is no law saying you must. Unlike the US we have healrh care so the whole lawsuit thing is less an issue. But if someone gets horribly hurt, there are reasons to come after the cause of that misfortune. So you best way to be is to not have any assets if you own a big honking house in Rosedale, etc... you are an atractive target. A few suppliers will not deal with you if you do not have insurance, as a requirement of their insurance. So there is that. You can count on the insurance not being there for you if something serious happens. You will have to sue, and it will take 5 years.

Pros

1) It is rewarding because you don't do it. To deserve this kind of career it has to come to a point where you do it without thinking. Not exciting, fresh, challenging, etc... any more. Some people love that, but you could make both sides of that argument on computing also, and you know how that is turning up.

2) The excitement of customers is what is known as time wasters and tire kickers. Yes, there willl be rewarding customers, but the will be 1/100, there will be some solid ones and an ocean of time wasters. This is one reason to be a little remote.

3) There is certainly a chance of artisitic expression, but you will be under a lot of time pressure, and for the most part you will not have the time to do radically different things every time. Many of the successful builders seem to put a lot of effort into their overall brand, but as a result the individual bikes follow some sort of common pattern. This could be even moreso, in some regard, with lugs, though lugs are a canvas of sorts for some.

4) That would be cool, though for the most part bikes are patterned, not engineered. Like you I enjoy working through those angles.

Cons

1)The start up costs in gear are pretty trivial, but the bridge finance aspect of it is not.

2) I think it is nearly impossible to make it if you can't work out of your house for a while.

3) Yeah, the fact it gets so cold here once a year is an issue. Easier in say Victoria. And the place you decide to do this is really important. I tend to think at this point if Toronto were going to be Portland, it would have happened. When Mariposa was starting there were hand crafts being sold the length of yonge street from bloor on down. Candles, leather, etc... from street vendors. People were selling peeny farthing t-shirts, and cycling was the hot sport.

4) Prices are too low, and part of the thing is you have to be able to have people see the value. Some people just sell high end stuff like that was nothing. If that isn't you, it is a problem. What you referred to as bike culture, is to many people in TO hobo culture, you need to have the ability to reach the kind of people who buy expensive bikes because they couldn't afford Mariposa in the 70s when they were kids. That is me, though I make my own. Back in the 70s bikes were cool, then it moves on. What is cool now is not in all cases the kind of thing that leads to high end sales.

5) I have done lots of handwork over the years including piece work. Some people really are not cut out for it. It is a grind in some part for most people. If you make a list of all the steps in making a frame, which ones are the ones you see yourself doing? A great deal of it is dirty repetitive work, with the time spent with a torch in your hands being just one part. But you have to push through the stuff you don't like if it is your job. One of the things Psych torture relies on is the idea that it is harder to resist the pain that you inflict on yourself. In the same vein, it seems to be relatively easy for many people to do a boring job for money. But it may be hard if you are the one making you do it.
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