I've never gotten a truly round Challenge tubular, and I've had a half-dozen of them. Maybe I'm picky, but if I can feel the tire bumping on a smooth road, I'm not happy - and it's not like the Challenges are a bargain tire.

And I'm happy to hear about the possibility of 25mm Vittoria Rallys, but I can't recall ever having worn out one of the 23mm ones - they puncture very easily.

So the only fat, good quality tubulars I'm aware of are from FMB and Dugast. I've had fantastic results from both brands. They last a long time and rarely puncture, have an absolutely luxurious ride, and are fast as any tire available. But even at that, the cost is very hard to justify, for me anyway.