Originally Posted by
Rowan
I can look in the burner to see how much fuel is left. And I can look in the clear plastic bottle, or inside the Heet bottle to see how much I have left for multiple usage.
Just as I can tell how much fuel is left in my canisters by feeling them, weighing them or shaking them.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
The safety aspect of refuelling a hot Trangia burner is overstated. If it extinguishes, I just refill it. The burner is not hot enough for it to set alight the new fuel without a flame.
Adding fuel to a hot open burn stove
is a safety issue. A volatile fuel like an alcohol (ethanol or methanol) evaporates when it is poured. If the device is hot, the amount of evaporation is greater and there is an invisible cloud of fuel mixed with air over the device. Reigniting the stove means passing a flame through that mixture which will ignite at the outer edge and burn inward. It could easily flare. Depending on the heat of the device and the size of the cloud, the size of the fireball can be quite large.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
You should also know that immediately you put any fuel under pressure, the dangers associated with it go up. Alcohol stoves don't use fuel under pressure.
The dangers only go up if the pressure is released and an air/fuel mixture is allowed to form. If the fuel is within a pressure vessel and the release is controlled, there is little to no danger. The same can't be said for a open pool of flammable liquid.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
If a forest fire was started by someone using an mass burn stove, then tell us what type and how it was being used. I can then tell you about people who have been burned very badly by propane explosions in their tents. Or how they've singed their eyebrows trying to bring a rampant pressure gas stove under control.
There is a Denver Post story here on the Hewlett fire. As for people being burned by propane explosions in their tent or singing their eyebrows with stoves, you can't fix stupid. Anyone who cooks in their tent...with
any stove... is beyond dumb as is anyone who puts their face over
any stove while lighting it.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
I specifically mentioned the Pocket Rocket as being unstable. Others may or may not be. I commented on what I found with that burner. I like the way Trangia sets work with a stable base that by their very design help prevent pots from being spilled.
The Pocket Rocket uses the same base as most other butane stoves, i.e. the canister. I've never had a problem with one falling over but I also think about where I place my stove before I put a pot on it. If I were worried about stability, there are bases that can be added to the canister to stabilize it. Or you can use an Omnifuel stove that doesn't sit on the canister but is on it's own base. It's as stable as the Trangia...maybe even more so.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
You may be a competent cook with the stove you desire to use. I have seen many others who are not. This largely comes back to the type of stove they have been using, and they weren't alcohol ones.
It's not the stove's fault but user error. So all high BTU stoves are bad? I don't follow the logic.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
I also have issues with propane cartridge disposal. You can't refill them...
No, you can't refill them but then you don't usually refill a Heet bottle either. And, since the BTUs are about half of butane, you have to use twice as many bottles. You can purchase
a tool to puncture the gas canister and make it recyclable.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
Gas has additives that aren't nice, and any leakage into a pannier is going to be awful to clean up, unlike alcohol that simply... evaporates.
Gas
oline has additives but then so does Heet. I have never had to use gasoline for fuel but use white gas (known by various names around the world) which evaporates as cleanly as alcohol and is less toxic than methanol (the major ingredient in Heet). Butane never leaks in my experience and, if it did, would evaporate even more quickly than white gas or methanol.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
I've also seen the result first hand of neglect with a propane gas stove, left on as its owners went to bed in a tent. The explosion resulted in shrapnel being scattered up to 20 metres around the campsite. Fortunately, no-one was hurt.
As I said, you can't fix stupid. We have first hand experience in my state with what happens when an alcohol stove is used carelessly. 7000 acres of charred forest, 5 days of intense fire fighting and millions of dollars spent to fight it, to, be exact. That's a lot of damage for a 'safe' fuel.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
I think we've all used different stoves over a period. Your long-held belief that alcohol simply isn't efficient enough in BTU terms for you is OK. For others, they choose what works for them. The OP then can weigh up the pros and cons, including and beyond the BTUs (as a professional chef, I'm sure he is aware of those issues), and go from there.
Although heat value is important to me...I do occasionally like boiling water and would rather not wait around all day for it...it's not the only consideration. Containing the flame, having the ability to meter the heat, having control over turning the stove off and on and, yes, the safe handling of the fuel is just as important. I don't really like using white gas and I will avoid it as much as possible. I have the same problem with it as I do with other liquid fuels. It's just too easy to mishandle it. Butane is easier to use all the way around because it doesn't pool, it doesn't flare and you can't spill it. Since I never, ever, ever, never cook inside my tents and would suggest that
no one cook in theirs, I don't have any issues with explosions or even the possibility of one. If someone does cook with propane in their tent, they are just as likely to cook with alcohol and they would still be in the same boat...the fast boat to gene pool removal.