Thread: stoves
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Old 11-29-12 | 10:42 AM
  #37  
Rowan
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Just as I can tell how much fuel is left in my canisters by feeling them, weighing them or shaking them.



Adding fuel to a hot open burn stove is a safety issue. A volatile fuel like an alcohol (ethanol or methanol) evaporates when it is poured. If the device is hot, the amount of evaporation is greater and there is an invisible cloud of fuel mixed with air over the device. Reigniting the stove means passing a flame through that mixture which will ignite at the outer edge and burn inward. It could easily flare. Depending on the heat of the device and the size of the cloud, the size of the fireball can be quite large.



The dangers only go up if the pressure is released and an air/fuel mixture is allowed to form. If the fuel is within a pressure vessel and the release is controlled, there is little to no danger. The same can't be said for a open pool of flammable liquid.



There is a Denver Post story here on the Hewlett fire. As for people being burned by propane explosions in their tent or singing their eyebrows with stoves, you can't fix stupid. Anyone who cooks in their tent...with any stove... is beyond dumb as is anyone who puts their face over any stove while lighting it.



The Pocket Rocket uses the same base as most other butane stoves, i.e. the canister. I've never had a problem with one falling over but I also think about where I place my stove before I put a pot on it. If I were worried about stability, there are bases that can be added to the canister to stabilize it. Or you can use an Omnifuel stove that doesn't sit on the canister but is on it's own base. It's as stable as the Trangia...maybe even more so.




It's not the stove's fault but user error. So all high BTU stoves are bad? I don't follow the logic.



No, you can't refill them but then you don't usually refill a Heet bottle either. And, since the BTUs are about half of butane, you have to use twice as many bottles. You can purchase a tool to puncture the gas canister and make it recyclable.



Gasoline has additives but then so does Heet. I have never had to use gasoline for fuel but use white gas (known by various names around the world) which evaporates as cleanly as alcohol and is less toxic than methanol (the major ingredient in Heet). Butane never leaks in my experience and, if it did, would evaporate even more quickly than white gas or methanol.



As I said, you can't fix stupid. We have first hand experience in my state with what happens when an alcohol stove is used carelessly. 7000 acres of charred forest, 5 days of intense fire fighting and millions of dollars spent to fight it, to, be exact. That's a lot of damage for a 'safe' fuel.



Although heat value is important to me...I do occasionally like boiling water and would rather not wait around all day for it...it's not the only consideration. Containing the flame, having the ability to meter the heat, having control over turning the stove off and on and, yes, the safe handling of the fuel is just as important. I don't really like using white gas and I will avoid it as much as possible. I have the same problem with it as I do with other liquid fuels. It's just too easy to mishandle it. Butane is easier to use all the way around because it doesn't pool, it doesn't flare and you can't spill it. Since I never, ever, ever, never cook inside my tents and would suggest that no one cook in theirs, I don't have any issues with explosions or even the possibility of one. If someone does cook with propane in their tent, they are just as likely to cook with alcohol and they would still be in the same boat...the fast boat to gene pool removal.
Errr... just how many times have you used an alcohol stove, cyccommute? You really do come across as someone who hasn't.

And your melodramatic claims about 7000 acres of charred forest come back to... you guessed it... operator error. Just like you justify certain aspects of gas and propane misuse.

You are incorrect in that heat output from a burner cannot be controlled. In my experience, you are incorrect about the flare from relighting after refilling an alcohol burner. Heet is not a fuel that I have used at all -- and methylated spirits doesn't have the same additives as gasoline. You provide solutions for cannister disposal, that require acquisition of tools and more weight to tour with. Plus weighing the cannister? Really? On tour? And you are plain flat out wrong about waiting all day for a pot of water to boil when using alcohol.

At least you might have thrown up the fact that alcohol doesn't perform that well in high altitudes or in very low temperatures. I've had a few issues in that regard, but really only on one trip. Cycling and travelling through the Canadian Rockies at quite high elevations haven't presented any significant issues. Again, it will depend on the type of touring that chefisaac wants to do.

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chefisaac, this sort of discussion is almost inevitable when you talk about stoves. It's like Brooks, carbon fibre, helmets and so on, but it's just restricted to touring.

Maybe you should visit your REI shop again, and see if the staff can give you a demonstration of the merits of each of the types of stoves we've been discussing here. It's unlikely, but it's worth a shot. The principle stoves to consider are gasoline, propane, alcohol, solid fuel, and another version which they might not stock that burns wood.

Each does have its own merits. But the reason why I asked about what sort of fuel you use for normal cooking, and I suppose we should ask what sort of food do you want to cook on tour... is that cooking with thin aluminium, stainless steel or titanium pots requires a different heating strategy than does cooking with pots that have thick bases.
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