Originally Posted by
Rowan
Errr... just how many times have you used an alcohol stove, cyccommute? You really do come across as someone who hasn't.
I've experimented with a 'cat food' can stove at home. I wasn't impressed. There is absolutely no control over the flame with that kind of stove. There is no low, high or medium setting since it just a pool of alcohol that burns. I did try white gas in one too. I'd not suggest anyone try that since the fire is far too hot for the materials used to construct the stove. It didn't melt but the foil tape holding the cans together didn't fair too well in just a few minutes of burning.
As for other alcohol stoves, I've not tried them. I'm not likely to either since I have several stoves that work very well and I can't see the point of a low heat value fuel like alcohol
Originally Posted by
Rowan
And your melodramatic claims about 7000 acres of charred forest come back to... you guessed it... operator error. Just like you justify certain aspects of gas and propane misuse.
Talk to the people who were impacted by 7000 acres (~ 12 sq miles) of forest that was burned as to whether or not it is melodramatic. I'll agree that it was operator error but it's an error that would be extremely difficult to repeat with a pressurized white gas stove and impossible to repeat with a butane stove. I suppose if I dropped a butane stove in a pile of pine needles or waved it around the limbs of a tree, I could get a good blaze going but that goes beyond operator error.
It's also a little disingenuous to complain about 'melodrama' when you have your own melodramatic issues. Going on about blowing up a tent with a propane canister is a tad melodramatic as well.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
You are incorrect in that heat output from a burner cannot be controlled. In my experience, you are incorrect about the flare from relighting after refilling an alcohol burner. Heet is not a fuel that I have used at all -- and methylated spirits doesn't have the same additives as gasoline. You provide solutions for cannister disposal, that require acquisition of tools and more weight to tour with. Plus weighing the cannister? Really? On tour? And you are plain flat out wrong about waiting all day for a pot of water to boil when using alcohol.
How do you control the heat from a burner that burns from a pool of liquid? I can adjust the valve on any of my stoves so that I have a flame that is barely visible or a flame that is almost hot enough to melt steel.
I see nothing in the Trangia stove that looks like a regulator or flame control. And I know that catfood can stoves have zero regulation.
You are the one who mentioned Heet, not me. One could easily assume that you've used it. You are also the one who mentioned low temperature heating
I like the Trangias for their stability, performance in the wind, and their slow cooking (like indyfabz, I like cooking rather than just reheating or boiling water).
One could draw the conclusion that boiling water isn't important to you and, from my experiments at home, it's rather difficult to achieve with alcohol.
I don't 'just reheat or boil water' when I cook over a camp stove but I also like the fact that I can boil a pot of water for coffee in a very short period of time.
There are also many ways of 'weighing' something. The canister has heft to it so you can 'weigh' it in your hand. An empty canister is lighter than a full one.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
At least you might have thrown up the fact that alcohol doesn't perform that well in high altitudes or in very low temperatures. I've had a few issues in that regard, but really only on one trip. Cycling and travelling through the Canadian Rockies at quite high elevations haven't presented any significant issues. Again, it will depend on the type of touring that chefisaac wants to do.
Can't cover everything. But that is more an issue with the boiling point of water than it is with the fuel. I'm used to living at 5000+ feet so adjusting to altitude isn't much of a problem. Going down in altitude is more of a problem because stuff cooks faster than I expect.
Originally Posted by
Rowan
chefisaac, this sort of discussion is almost inevitable when you talk about stoves. It's like Brooks, carbon fibre, helmets and so on, but it's just restricted to touring.
Maybe you should visit your REI shop again, and see if the staff can give you a demonstration of the merits of each of the types of stoves we've been discussing here. It's unlikely, but it's worth a shot. The principle stoves to consider are gasoline, propane, alcohol, solid fuel, and another version which they might not stock that burns wood.
Each does have its own merits. But the reason why I asked about what sort of fuel you use for normal cooking, and I suppose we should ask what sort of food do you want to cook on tour... is that cooking with thin aluminium, stainless steel or titanium pots requires a different heating strategy than does cooking with pots that have thick bases.
I, too, suggest that Chefisaac try stoves before he buys. He should seriously consider how the fuel is handled, how it is dispensed, how it is controlled and even how hot the flame is. You may like to do 'slow cooking' but some people may not.