Originally Posted by
rpenmanparker
I may be sorry I started this line of response, but here goes. First OP, I totally respect your riding prowess. From what you say, you ride at a level I never have even dreamed of. My best day ever was 50 miles at 20.5/mile on a completely flat road. A few years later that is just a fond memory. But this goes way beyond riding...
I just don't understand how you can think of paying a small fortune for goods that cost so little to produce. Do the ENVE people not totally insult you? Do they not make you angry? Their rims altogether probably cost under $50/pair to make, and you would pay WHAT for them? Same for Chris King, who has for years hidden his profit margins behind a smoke screen of techno-bull and tough back-to-basics talk. He is the grand denyer, saying nothing new can be any good, because he chooses to charge way too much for the old-fashioned. I feel the same way about Sapim ($3.00 for a little strip of stainless steel, FGS), but since there is no functionally equivalent alternative at a cheaper price, there is no choice there.
I read what you said about always wanting to look like a pro in any kind of sport you pursued. Fair enough, I can understand that, but you are forgetting one thing. The pros get this stuff for free. They don't ride it because it is best or prettiest, but because it is given to them. You're the patsy that pays for all that.
When it comes down to it, what irks me the most is that you are considering forsaking the best riding solution for the flashiest. Man that is hard to accept. After having the great good luck to fall into this relationship with Jude and get this free-for-nothing demo test, you are ignoring the results for a little sparkle. And your good friends on the "41" are egging you on. "Just buy it man. You're gonna have the sweetest ride on the road. So what if your kids can't go to college?" (Hey, please forgive that. It was a cheap shot but a little too hard to pass up. I think you know what I DO mean.)
If it were me, I would learn to build wheels. I would invest some money in the necessary equipment (truing stand, tensiometer, aero spoke gripper, etc.). I would go to BHS and get their highly functional, very inexpensive wheel components, and I would build the pair of wheels that are really going to improve my riding and the enjoyment of it. Probably their deep, 23 mm wide aluminum rims for under $60 apiece. And then I would deposit the extra $1,500 in my kids' college fund. Oh, and I would be LOL every time I aired up my tires and took a good look at my wheels that I had built, every time I dropped my friends on a ride, and certainly every time one of them told me what he paid for his new wheels.
I hope I haven't offended you. You did ask to be dissuaded from the ENVEs. I know I took it a step or two further, but I am just being honest with you according to my beliefs. Parting shot: let the other guys be the patsies; you be the smart one.
Robert
I'm not offended at all. I appreciate the input, But I don't think you needed to title it,"have you no self respect". there are several things here that I disagree with. part of the issue is that you dont understand part of this equation, something you cant understand because you are on the outside is our financial situation. We are comfortable. We have a 2700 sq foot home, 3 car carage, 2 nice vehicles, 2 beautiful children. We can afford to put clothes on our backs when needed, fill up our cars with gas as needed, go out when we have the available money in our budget. We have college funds set up for both children. investing into retirement. That is all taken care of. So its not a matter of buying $2k wheels will take food away from my family, education from my kids or any other direct effect on myself or family. We live within our means and do not go out of those means. My wife and i made a plan when we got married that in order to have the lifestyle we wanted, any hobbies or activities that would be unnecessary would have to be paid for by money we got from bday, xmas, or any other way to get sid emoney that doesn't directly effect our house hold income. So this is why coming of money is difficult for me, because there are only so many reasons to get money in a hallmark greeting card throughout the year and I only have so many things laying around that I can sell. Nobody needs to know this and I dont feel I have to explain myself, but in this situation it might help if you or anyone else who might be confused to understand the angle I'm coming from.
Enve products are among the highest quality items you can get. I'm sure they have a mark up, thats what running a business is all about. Its called supply and demand. people are willing to pay for it, therefor he will conitinue to have that margin. I work for red bull. One of the highest gripes we get is that an 8oz can is still more than a 16oz can of rockstar or Monster energy. Most cases, this is true. But even though it is more expensive, Red bull is still the #1 purchased energy drink in the US and in the world. People want a premium product and people are willing to pay for what they want, especially if it is premium. Why do people buy lambos and ferrari's when they could trick out a $10k car and have it be faster? because they want premium and are willing to pay for it. you think a $600,000 car is really worth more than a $200,000 car? You can choose to believe what you want and I'm not going to sit here and act like I know the ins and outs of each hub and why this is better or that is better. I have an EXPERT who has taken it upon herself to teach me and have me experience what I wasn't this entire time. Call it placebo or whatever you want, she has my trust and if she tells me that she think I will benefit more from this or that than i will follow if i can afford it. Please remember that she is the one that wanted me to try the Enve wheels. She knew that it might tempt me a bit, but thought it would be a good opportunity to feel the difference. Her and several other professional wheel builders will tell you that enve wheels are among the best in the field. Thats not just because they make a margin on the sale, but because the the product has proven itself to be that good. Could I get a cheaper hub such as novatech or bitech or edhub? of course. I have been working with Jude very closely through this entire process and she knows what I want out of a wheel. Through that dialogue and information she has put together a wheel suggestion that she thinks will accomplish just that. That suggestion is based off my desire for performance and aesthetics. I told her what I would want to spend and she came up with the ideas that would fit along with it. After coming up with more money,
I redrew the line, not her. Maybe I'm foolish for considering the enve's or even that I'm about to drop $1k on a wheelset, but its not like I'm standing in a room alone here. Even people that dont race, people that ride recreationally like myself buy things far superior to what they need. Furthermore I would be very interested to know if you really new what these production companies set their margins at or what this or that costs. Unless you have some direct affiliation with each brand, there is little chance you understand their base numbers.
If YOU want to take lessons on how to build wheels and build up your own set from more inexpensive parts, so be it. The fact of this matter is that the enve wheels are out of my reach for now. Still doesn't change the fact that I find them desireable and am thinking about if I could find a way to make them mine. Even if i did find a way to buy them, Jude has told me that they would be a perfect all around wheel for the riding I do. Whether I can afford them or want to go down the carbon route is up to me. With that said, i dont feel that I would be "ignoring the results for a little sparkle". more of wheel than i was planning on or need, but does in fact fit into my needs of a wheel, regardless if it is more wheel than I need isn't the question. Going back to what I said above, I think it is important for you or anyone else reading this to remember that Jude has earned my trust. Maybe I'm nieve to think that she could have my best interest in mind, but I chose to believe so. If she told me Both would be great for me, but left it up to me on which I want or could afford then I would need to see what I could do with my finances.
True, it does blow my mind on how much companies are able to mark it up as much as they do, but thats the world we live in. There are cheaper options of course, but that goes back to what I was saying above, that some people including myself are willing to pay for that quality. quality of the product and peace of mind.
sorry so long winded, just wanted to try and touch on each of your statements.